is socialism dead? and should we care?

[den the menace]

i wrote to our MP a couple of years ago and asked him if he ever felt any personal shame, that this part of east lancs was so poor and disadvantaged compared to towns and citys south of birmingham,

i also asked him what he thought the reaction would be if the people up here really new how prosperous the south really is. to his credit he did reply, but only with the usual platitudes. i have come to the conclusion that it just does not make any difference who is in power in westminster, after 11 years of new labour it aint made any quantifiable differance to our lives as far as i can see. i wont be voting at the next election, unless of course someone with the backbone to do what MPs are supposed to do, namely represent their constituants, and not just screw as much as they can out of the john lewis list.

they even claim for a TV licence, when almost every week the observer prints lists of people being fined for not having one, if an MP buys a gallon of diesel he claims it back, so why should they worry about us.

when is the electorate going to wake up to these greedy hypocrites, who are living the high life and leaving us to pick up the tab.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by den the menace

i wrote to our MP a couple of years ago and asked him if he ever felt any personal shame, that this part of east lancs was so poor and disadvantaged compared to towns and citys south of birmingham,

i also asked him what he thought the reaction would be if the people up here really new how prosperous the south really is. to his credit he did reply, but only with the usual platitudes. i have come to the conclusion that it just does not make any difference who is in power in westminster, after 11 years of new labour it aint made any quantifiable differance to our lives as far as i can see. i wont be voting at the next election, unless of course someone with the backbone to do what MPs are supposed to do, namely represent their constituants, and not just screw as much as they can out of the john lewis list.

they even claim for a TV licence, when almost every week the observer prints lists of people being fined for not having one, if an MP buys a gallon of diesel he claims it back, so why should they worry about us.

when is the electorate going to wake up to these greedy hypocrites, who are living the high life and leaving us to pick up the tab.

I can't help wondering how old you are den, myself I have ever believed in socialism, but like I have always maintained each to is own. When elected those people (of any party, parliamentary I mean ) forget all the promises they made on the doostep and have to buckle to the party line, Greg has made, to his credit, some moves to pacify the Hyndburn public, but he's a party man, first and formost, so don't expect him to do hand stands at any left wing request from you or anyone else, for Greg is now as left wing as I am, and I'm just to the left of Atila the Hun

[Lilly]

Originally Posted by den the menace

i wrote to our MP a couple of years ago and asked him if he ever felt any personal shame, that this part of east lancs was so poor and disadvantaged compared to towns and citys south of birmingham,

i also asked him what he thought the reaction would be if the people up here really new how prosperous the south really is. to his credit he did reply, but only with the usual platitudes. i have come to the conclusion that it just does not make any difference who is in power in westminster, after 11 years of new labour it aint made any quantifiable differance to our lives as far as i can see. i wont be voting at the next election, unless of course someone with the backbone to do what MPs are supposed to do, namely represent their constituants, and not just screw as much as they can out of the john lewis list.

they even claim for a TV licence, when almost every week the observer prints lists of people being fined for not having one, if an MP buys a gallon of diesel he claims it back, so why should they worry about us.

when is the electorate going to wake up to these greedy hypocrites, who are living the high life and leaving us to pick up the tab.

I think it's a bit unfair to suggest that Greg Pope should feel personal shame that we have deprived areas round here.

He's not to be blamed for that.

[Eric]

Socialism is alive and well, and still misunderstood ... the worst thing that ever happened to socialism was the Russian Revolution, which installed State Capitalism, esp. under Stalin, rather than socialism or communism. Socialism, in some form, is at the core of many religions: it is hard to read the teachings of Jesus without socialism coming to mind .... I think that what concerns you is regional inequality, and the inequitable distribution of the national wealth. These inequalities are more apt to increase under political parties to the right of center. It is strange, but in a democracy the hardest sell for any active socialist, is to convince the poor that they have the power to change the way things are, not necessarily tho' revolution, but by means of the ballot box.

Unfortunately, the poor are too busy trying to make a go of it. They don't have the time or, many of them, the education to sort thro' all the bs that comes out of Whitehall .... or Ottawa for that matter.

I would argue that political parties have to recognise the growing gap between rich and poor, and do something about it, because in many parts of the world govts. are sitting on a powder keg. And they don't realise that the fuse may already have been lit.

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by den the menace

unless of course someone with the backbone to do what MPs are supposed to do, namely represent their constituants, and not just screw as much as they can out of the john lewis list.

I think regardless of poltical persuasion Greg Pope will actually help any of his constituents if there is something he can do. He can't please them all.

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by jaysay

I can't help wondering how old you are den, myself I have ever believed in socialism,

I have the feeling you mean never? Get that keyboard sorted will you.

[polly]

Originally Posted by jaysay

......................... forget all the promises they made on the doostep and have to buckle to the party line,.............

and that is the nub of the problem. We need Independent MP's. People who really live in thea reas they represent, not just have postal addresses (I am not having a go at any MP here and I know it does not apply to the Accrington)
We need MP's who have a real stake in the future of the area that they represent and who are not controlled by any party who virtually becomes their employer.

The Nort in particular desperately needs local representation and its own centre of local goverment, it has certainly worked for Wales and Scotland. A local power centre (assembly) means that local people can be involved as they dont have to spend all week away from their families and they are constantly in touch with their community.

[Benipete]

Originally Posted by lancsdave

I think regardless of poltical persuasion Greg Pope will actually help any of his constituents if there is something he can do. He can't please them all.

Has that great socialist Arthur Scargill still got his white Rolls Royce?I know at one time he was afraid to get it out of the garage.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by polly

and that is the nub of the problem. We need Independent MP's. People who really live in thea reas they represent, not just have postal addresses (I am not having a go at any MP here and I know it does not apply to the Accrington)
We need MP's who have a real stake in the future of the area that they represent and who are not controlled by any party who virtually becomes their employer.

The Nort in particular desperately needs local representation and its own centre of local goverment, it has certainly worked for Wales and Scotland. A local power centre (assembly) means that local people can be involved as they dont have to spend all week away from their families and they are constantly in touch with their community.

The problem of regional disparity is common to many countries ... in Canada, it involves designating provinces as "have" or "have not" ... have not provinces get what is known as "equalization payments" out of Federal revenues. This is done according to formulae worked out at conferences between the Feds and representatives of the provinces. It works, sort of, but there are always arguments and general grumblings. And Canadian MPs have been known to vote against their party on matters which have a negative impact on the area they represent. Who can forget Elijah Harper ......

[polly]

Originally Posted by Eric

The problem of regional disparity is common to many countries ... in Canada, it involves designating provinces as "have" or "have not" ... have not provinces get what is known as "equalization payments" out of Federal revenues. This is done according to formulae worked out at conferences between the Feds and representatives of the provinces. It works, sort of, but there are always arguments and general grumblings. And Canadian MPs have been known to vote against their party on matters which have a negative impact on the area they represent. Who can forget Elijah Harper ......

Go study the Welsh Assembly it works. I have recently seen it in action. I am sure very few of the Welsh would give it up, of course it will be difficult to make a true study from so far away

[Benipete]

Originally Posted by polly

Go study the Welsh Assembly it works. I have recently seen it in action. I am sure very few of the Welsh would give it up, of course it will be difficult to make a true study from so far away

If they'd done a bit less singing and a bit more digging they wouldn't have to relay on Pot Noodles.Anyway we may need the pits again the way it's going.

[blazey]

My college at Uni is known as the socialist college (i found this out after I became a member of the college so I am a bit of an outcast when i'm with college friends!) They all call eachother comrade and sometimes when they are taking the mick they call me it too. Mainly they just whine about everything and get nothing done. I hate to judge all socialists just off the ones I know at uni, but they come across as being a bit whiney and don't actually do much about anything.

[Tin Monkey]

I think there's some confusion about the true definition of socialism, which is to be expected considering the way that 'extreme' ideologies have been demonised over the last few decades.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Royboy39

I have the feeling you mean never? Get that keyboard sorted will you.

Your right Roy, this lap top is a nuisance for that, I missed that one though, I usually check before posting, but I'd just had my first dink for a fortnight and couldn't be assed

[garinda]

Originally Posted by den the menace

i wrote to our MP a couple of years ago and asked him if he ever felt any personal shame, that this part of east lancs was so poor and disadvantaged compared to towns and citys south of birmingham,

I disagree. I don't think it is as easy as thinking that there is a north/south divide.

For instance Cornwall has the lowest income per person in the country.

I lived in London for sixteen years, and there are very poor parts of the capital. Just as there are very wealthy areas in the north, such as Cheshire, North Yorkshire, and even parts of Lancashire.

I think any problems we have are nationwide, and the rot set in long before this government came to power.