Is this Justice? - Page 3

Mancie · 07-03-2009, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

This was passed into law last year without opposition.
And it isn't playground gossip that drug addicts and alcoholics get benefits to pay for their habit.

What was passed into law?...and still no proof that addicts and alocholics get benefits to pay for drugs and booze....maybe they get a disability benefit and there is an argument to say they should not get that benefit, but I don't believe they get "extra" money to pay for booze or drugs.

Royboy39 · 07-03-2009, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

What was passed into law?...and still no proof that addicts and alocholics get benefits to pay for drugs and booze....maybe they get a disability benefit and there is an argument to say they should not get that benefit, but I don't believe they get "extra" money to pay for booze or drugs.

Have a look at this:

Daily Express | UK News :: Now alcoholics can get benfits for three years

lancsdave · 07-03-2009, 23:07

The headline writer at the Express must have been drunk when he wrote it

Mancie · 07-03-2009, 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royboy39

Have a look at this:

Daily Express | UK News :: Now alcoholics can get benfits for three years

But that aticle is the same as the Telegraph's...I think we have established that alcholics and drug addicts can get incapacity and disability benefits but earlier posts have said these people get "extra" money to pay for drugs and booze!

accyman · 07-03-2009, 23:12

as i said earlier they scrapped teh booze for money scheme and hid them on teh sick , probably because people were disgusted at alcholics getting booze for free at the tax payers expense

they still get their booze money they now just call the means in which they get it somthing different

Royboy39 · 07-03-2009, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

But that aticle is the same as the Telegraph's...I think we have established that alcholics and drug addicts can get incapacity and disability benefits but earlier posts have said these people get "extra" money to pay for drugs and booze!

I've done my bit Googling for tonight....prove the posts wrong?

jedimaster · 07-03-2009, 23:25

from yahoo answers
Resolved Question

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Extra benefit for a registered alcoholic?

i heard a few people on about extra benefits for alcoholics if they are registered. To be honest I think this is something that somebody just made up as I cant find anything definite about it.
Maybe its just another way of dissing alcoholics
I am not an alcoholic and not on benefits, I'm just tired of hearing about this from people who I dont think really know it to be true

11 months ago

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by Dogs'r'u... Member since: September 01, 2006 Total points: 4414 (Level 4)

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Sorry to disagree with Mystery, but both my brother and his wife have been registered as alcoholics for 20 years, they live in Scotland and receive additional benefit as they both "need" alcohol and it is treated as a dependancy.

It is not much, approx £5 per week each, on top of their benefits. It does not make up for the loss of their children though, who all left home as soon as they were able.

11 months ago

Royboy39 · 07-03-2009, 23:44

I am sorry but I would not quote the previous response as I think most of it is a rant and a family upset that needs addressing by the family.

Margaret Pilkington · 08-03-2009, 09:08

OK...here are some answers for Eric......who thinks that we have all tossed our common sense and intellect out of the window and cites examples of punishment from the U.S.

The Youth Conditional Cautions bill was made law after the third unopposed reading in the Houses of Parliament.......it was part of the criminal Justice and Immigration Bill(schedule 9, section 48 for anyone who wants to check that what I am saying is true)

According to the report which I have read there were, last year,6,500 house burglaries and 6,300 robberies commited by the under 18's age group (the group which will be affected by this bill)......there were also 47,000 cases of theft and handling of stolen goods in this age group.......and these are the figures from the Home Office.
i do not know if this is a percentage rise in this kind of crime by this group of society.......the Home Office are not the most reliable in providing figures for crime.
(they recently provided figures regarding the incidence of knife crime, which when compared with the figures that the NHS provided, outlining the treatment of stab wounds, were underestimated by a large amount......maybe it was Stab a Friend week)

Another reason to suspect the veracity of Home Office figures is, they constantly change the way that the statistics are collected.

So Eric, perhaps my answer is only half an answer after all.

We have had over a decade of soft sentences for all crimes...not just those committed by feral youth....and although I can't provide you with the statistics that would satisfy you...my perception from reading the newspapers(local and national) is that crime is on the up.

Having ditched my common sense and intellect(as you delicately put it) I do not have the answer to the problem, but I am pretty sure that if your 82 year old mother had been mugged and robbed in her own home, you would find it a bit of an insult to have the juvenile perpetrator turn up to offer an apology......and offer to do a bit of painting for her. I think you would want him locked up...but hey maybe I am wrong.

Margaret Pilkington · 08-03-2009, 09:13

Oh, and as for the observation about unequal distribution of wealth.......so then, do you beleive that it should be a society where if you want something and can't afford it, then you can take it from someone who has it?

I was brought up in a time when people were poor....but we didn't steal and mug people to get what we wanted.
We were taught that if you wanted something you worked for it.

SPUGGIE J · 08-03-2009, 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Oh, and as for the observation about unequal distribution of wealth.......so then, do you beleive that it should be a society where if you want something and can't afford it, then you can take it from someone who has it?

I was brought up in a time when people were poor....but we didn't steal and mug people to get what we wanted.
We were taught that if you wanted something you worked for it.

Sadly to the detriment of society the old honest values you cherish Margret have gone the way of the Dodo. We are now left with the values of the gutter and destruction that has become so prevelent in our society. Is it not time we forced the issue and went back to the old values and stop the gutter rats ruining our lives and extending their reign of chaos?

I have some of the old values and beliefs and think of them as my old fashioned foibles. Ok I am no teenage/twenty something but I hold my foibles dear and suppose proud of them. I am no angel but I do know right from wrong and respect others rights but they dont even come close nowadays. The thing is though the longer this is allowed to go on the more trouble we are storing for the future not just of my daughters generation but that of my grand and great grandkids.

The outcome will be more interference in our lives from central govenment, god forbid a police state, suspension of our rights n liberties. In other words an Orwellian society of what would be best discribed as one of obedient zombies with the get up and go of a slab of concrete. The only way to avoid this is less interference less reactive and more helpful proactive help. I hope I dont live to see the day that what I cherished is removed because the scum and dirt were allowed to run amok. Should it reach that stage then the phrase "the good old days" will be a very real truth.

SPUGGIE J · 08-03-2009, 10:15

As a postscript to my previous post while listening to a cd a song on it sort of sums up society today and thats Big Countries Troubled waters. Maybe its an omen or forsight I am not sure.

garinda · 08-03-2009, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

It seems that whenever something like this crops up on Accy Web, people toss their intellect and common sense out the window; they seem to confuse intelligent and creative response with a spasmodic, ill-thought-out reaction. One sensational new report sends people scurrying for their cat o' nine tails and their nooses. Simple solutions will not work ... Is anyone going to present any stats showing that there has been a massive increase in crime? If someone does, then they may form a basis for a set of reasoned arguments. Perhaps if one looked not at deterrents for crime, but at the incentives, one may get a clearer picture. There is no simple equation: harsher punishment = less crime ... just doesn't work that way. Look at the example that the US gives us, esp. a US governed by right wing republicans. Some of the toughest laws in the world; the only developed Western nation still to have capital punishment; some really tough drug laws .... and what do we get: crime rate in general thro' the roof; murder rate .... well, the city of Detroit has more murders in a year than the whole of the British Isles .... more drug addicts, and most drug related crimes amongst developed nations .... And take a look at the prison population in the US; don't you notice a preponderance of blacks and hispanics? Mmmm, niggers and spics must have a greater tendency to crime than white folks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And in Canada, it's the First Nations people who are over-represented in the jails. I wonder if poverty and the unequal distribution of wealth and justice might have something to do with it? O. J. Simpson literally got away with murder, because he could afford millions of dollars worth of legal aid; Tyrone and Jesus go to the chair. I'm not wandering off topic; I'm offering a thumbnail of a model lots of you guys seem to want to follow. Maybe the answers your government(s) are coming up with are not the right ones; maybe they won't work all that well; but that shouldn't stop the search for solutions that will work ... rather than go back to solutions that have been proven not to work. I've expressed these opinions before, with little success .... and I don't expect much change this time around.

I guess I should throw up a wall .... nah, I have the Atlantic.

'The government has already admitted that prisoners benefiting from the early release scheme have committed almost 1,000 crimes when they would have been locked up.'

'Andrew Mournian murdered his girlfriend Amanda Murphy, a mother of two. He attacked her with his fists on returning to the couple’s home in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire. He had been serving time for a previous attack on her when he was freed early'

'Darren Abrams, also a former prisoner, took part in a drunken attack in Portsmouth which led to the death of Jed Sheridan, a 19-year-old student. Abrams hanged himself while on remand. A third fatal incident took place in south Wales last September.'

'Straw has admitted that the deaths were among 181 alleged violent offences carried out by prisoners released early between June 2007 and last October. The end-of-custody scheme has been dogged by controversy. Last March The Sunday Times revealed that two terrorists had been released early.'

garinda · 08-03-2009, 14:06

Ex-cons given £5m for losing free board and lodging - Times Online

I find this toatally unacceptable, besides the fact that tax payers are compensating those early release prisoners for loss of free bed and board.

Not enough prison places...build more prisons, which could also boost the economy of the bulding industry.

Margaret Pilkington · 08-03-2009, 14:23

Karl Bishop killed the young actor Rob Knox by stabbing him to death.
When Bishop was told that Rob Knox had died....his reaction was to reply 'sweet'.
Karl Bishop did not even go into court for his sentencing. Instead he told the prison officers to take him back to Belmarsh 'as he knew he was going down, and anyway it was good there....I get fed and there is a gym'.
Karl Bishop was a habitual user of cannabis. Would you want him out on the streets to murder another innocent young man?

If this was my son who had died at the hands of this thug I would be devastated to hear this.

Maybe it is an emotive subject. It certainly seems to polarise opinions.

I just wonder how tough these criminals would be if they were dropped into real battle zones....like Afghanistan...but why should the forces have to do the job that the judiciary have so plainly failed at?

Answers.........I have none.