Is this Justice? - Page 4

Eric · 08-03-2009, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Karl Bishop killed the young actor Rob Knox by stabbing him to death.
When Bishop was told that Rob Knox had died....his reaction was to reply 'sweet'.
Karl Bishop did not even go into court for his sentencing. Instead he told the prison officers to take him back to Belmarsh 'as he knew he was going down, and anyway it was good there....I get fed and there is a gym'.
Karl Bishop was a habitual user of cannabis. Would you want him out on the streets to murder another innocent young man?

If this was my son who had died at the hands of this thug I would be devastated to hear this.

Maybe it is an emotive subject. It certainly seems to polarise opinions.

I just wonder how tough these criminals would be if they were dropped into real battle zones....like Afghanistan...but why should the forces have to do the job that the judiciary have so plainly failed at?

Answers.........I have none.

I agree with your last comment .... I don't have any answers either. In my first post, I tried to say all I had to say as briefly as I could; and then shut up. Unfortunately, in attempting to be concise, I became too terse. I had one point to make: harsher punishments will not deter crime. They never have in the past; they are not working now; and they will not work in the future. I'm not saying that leniency works either. So what do we do? Bounce around from one unworkable solution to another, in the same way that the economy bounces from boom to bust? That gets us nowhere. But we can't solve 21st. century problems with medieval solutions, no matter in what modern clothes we dress them. If that were possible, maybe we could solve the present economic crisis by returning to feudalism! There are major problems in all western societies. And they are begging for solutions, not ones that have been weighed in the balance etc., but new ones ... maybe your government is not finding the right answers, but at least they are trying to get away from the same old, same old.

Margaret Pilkington · 08-03-2009, 15:58

Eric, I understand that you tried to point out that the old ways do not work.....but that is because the old ways are not employed anymore.

What I was trying to point out was that the youths who are responsible for these crimes(sometimes in the homes of their victims....where you should be able to feel safe) do not respond to the lenient treatment either......and that it seems that the rights of the criminals outweigh those of the victims.
Criminals should lose their rights as soon as they commit an offence.

Eric · 08-03-2009, 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Eric, I understand that you tried to point out that the old ways do not work.....but that is because the old ways are not employed anymore.

What I was trying to point out was that the youths who are responsible for these crimes(sometimes in the homes of their victims....where you should be able to feel safe) do not respond to the lenient treatment either......and that it seems that the rights of the criminals outweigh those of the victims.
Criminals should lose their rights as soon as they commit an offence.

The old ways never worked ... employ them again, and they still won't work ... This is how the argument seems to go: being lenient doesn't work; let's be harsh. Doesn't make sense to replace something that doesn't work with something that doesn't work. (I had a mechanic who worked on those principles

). And while we are wasting time and energy trying to make the unworkable work, the problems get worse. You can be as harsh as you want, as harsh as the Germans at Lidice; or as harsh as the British were when faced with Gandhi; even to the ultimate degree, (the one that is adopted with religious relish by the good folks in Oaklahoma and Texas) ... but it won't work, other than as a very temporary band aid.

Anyhow ... we have a real nice day happening; so I'm off to enjoy it.

Margaret Pilkington · 08-03-2009, 16:39

I wonder what the crime figures are in China???
And what methods they use to deal with their criminals.

Prison has to be unpleasant for it to be a deterrent.......at the moment it seems that it is not that unpleasant...as long as you can rub along with the other inmates there.

I would hazard a guess that prison is more of punishment to the families of the criminals than it is to the criminals.

Maybe we should ship these thugs off to some uninhabited Hebridean Island
give them food for a week and then let them sort themselves out.......but then I am sure that would contravene some aspect of their Human Rights as laid down by the EU.

Ossywarrior · 08-03-2009, 20:04

well my grandma was murdered in the miners club by a drunk who strangled her and he got 4 years due to being a drunk so it has been going on a while.

Margaret Pilkington · 08-03-2009, 20:31

I'm sorry to hear that Ossywarrior. Yes the sentencing has been a farce for a long time.
But this new Act relates to the under 18's.

jaysay · 09-03-2009, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I wonder what the crime figures are in China???
And what methods they use to deal with their criminals.

Prison has to be unpleasant for it to be a deterrent.......at the moment it seems that it is not that unpleasant...as long as you can rub along with the other inmates there.

I would hazard a guess that prison is more of punishment to the families of the criminals than it is to the criminals.

Maybe we should ship these thugs off to some uninhabited Hebridean Island
give them food for a week and then let them sort themselves out.......but then I am sure that would contravene some aspect of their Human Rights as laid down by the EU.

There was an article in one of the Sundays regarding Ian Huntley, it seems that other inmates have been told to stop calling him names as its upsetting him an he has rights, well in the words of Dirty Harry, I'm all broke up about that mans rights, what about the rights of those two young girls who's lives he snuffed out

cashman · 09-03-2009, 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

The old ways never worked ... employ them again, and they still won't work ... This is how the argument seems to go: being lenient doesn't work; let's be harsh. Doesn't make sense to replace something that doesn't work with something that doesn't work. (I had a mechanic who worked on those principles

). And while we are wasting time and energy trying to make the unworkable work, the problems get worse. You can be as harsh as you want, as harsh as the Germans at Lidice; or as harsh as the British were when faced with Gandhi; even to the ultimate degree, (the one that is adopted with religious relish by the good folks in Oaklahoma and Texas) ... but it won't work, other than as a very temporary band aid.

Anyhow ... we have a real nice day happening; so I'm off to enjoy it.

the old ways may not work but at least if ya "Top" murdering scum, theres one Less on our streets to do it again, how many re-offend after release?

Eric · 09-03-2009, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

the old ways may not work but at least if ya "Top" murdering scum, theres one Less on our streets to do it again, how many re-offend after release?

Problem here is that quite a few innocent people are convicted of murder. Two high profile cases in Canada: David Milgaard, arrested and convicted in 1969 for the rape and murder of 20yr-old Gail Miller, a nurse, whose body was found on a snowbank in Saskatoon; spent 23 yrs in jail for the murder which, by the way, he didn't commit. Guy Paul Morin, convicted in 1984 for the rape and murder of a nine-yr-old girl. That one had folks screaming for the return of the death penalty. Problem is, Guy Paul was innocent; and the murderer is still at large! And the Canadian taxpayer is paying large bucks in compensation to these guys. And there is even one US State, I think Tenessee, that is considering getting rid of the death penalty in order to save money in these tough economic times. Seems like it costs too much to prosecute someone for a capital crime; all the safeguards, appeals etc., cost lots ... I guess they want to be sure that the guy they are frying is really guilty!

jaysay · 10-03-2009, 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

Problem here is that quite a few innocent people are convicted of murder. Two high profile cases in Canada: David Milgaard, arrested and convicted in 1969 for the rape and murder of 20yr-old Gail Miller, a nurse, whose body was found on a snowbank in Saskatoon; spent 23 yrs in jail for the murder which, by the way, he didn't commit. Guy Paul Morin, convicted in 1984 for the rape and murder of a nine-yr-old girl. That one had folks screaming for the return of the death penalty. Problem is, Guy Paul was innocent; and the murderer is still at large! And the Canadian taxpayer is paying large bucks in compensation to these guys. And there is even one US State, I think Tenessee, that is considering getting rid of the death penalty in order to save money in these tough economic times. Seems like it costs too much to prosecute someone for a capital crime; all the safeguards, appeals etc., cost lots ... I guess they want to be sure that the guy they are frying is really guilty!

I hear what your saying Eric, but how much has it cost the British Tax payer to keep the likes of Brady, Hindley, Rose West, Peter Sutcliffe, Ian Huntley, in luxury for the rest of their days, I could except it if this scum were made to really pay for their crimes, but they're in nice cushy cells stereo equipment, Sky TV and all mod cons. If this low life, spent the rest of their days breaking rocks then locked up with just a bed and a toilet for the rest of the day, that would be fine by me, but as we hear all to often they've got rights, pass the sick bucket

cashman · 10-03-2009, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

I hear what your saying Eric, but how much has it cost the British Tax payer to keep the likes of Brady, Hindley, Rose West, Peter Sutcliffe, Ian Huntley, in luxury for the rest of their days, I could except it if this scum were made to really pay for their crimes, but they're in nice cushy cells stereo equipment, Sky TV and all mod cons. If this low life, spent the rest of their days breaking rocks then locked up with just a bed and a toilet for the rest of the day, that would be fine by me, but as we hear all to often they've got rights, pass the sick bucket

thats the real insult to decent ordinary people, many of whom cannot afford "sky"

they should return to the old "P.D. n hard labour for these people.