It's a kibbutz Jim, but not as we know it

WillowTheWhisp · 20-02-2007, 07:59

Is nothing sacred any more?

Just heard on the radio that the oldest kibbutz in Israel is now going to pay workers according to the work they do, not according to their needs.

What happened to the beautiful idealism that once was the reason for their very existence?

SPUGGIE J · 20-02-2007, 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Is nothing sacred any more?

Just heard on the radio that the oldest kibbutz in Israel is now going to pay workers according to the work they do, not according to their needs.

What happened to the beautiful idealism that once was the reason for their very existence?

If this is the way forward then the spiritual side of a Kibbutz will be lost. People went to these retreats as a way of getting closer to God and worked for their bed board and spiritual needs and enlightenment for some. I wonder if the law has chnged in Isreal to force them to pay those that work to avoid it being seen as slave labour. Is this going to set a presidence for all religious communes world wide that they pay for what is done. To do this kind of work for any religious orginisation was seen as working for God and gaining insite from it. Now it looks like everything has a price.

WillowTheWhisp · 20-02-2007, 14:05

I remember the kibbutz ideal being that if everyone in the world lived that way there would never be any poor or needy because everyone got what they needed and did as much work as they were able - so the fitter probably did more but got less because there were the elderly and infirm who couldn't do as much but still had daily needs.

cashman · 20-02-2007, 23:35

theres a joke in that somewhere.

garinda · 20-02-2007, 23:46

...gone the same way as socialism.

An idealised harmonious world in principle, until human greed takes over.

SPUGGIE J · 21-02-2007, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

...gone the same way as socialism.

An idealised harmonious world in principle, until human greed takes over.

Its a good job there are still places that can cleanse a troubled soul even if it costs you a fortune. Refering to The Priory Clinic that seems to be the place to go to get help for a tortured soul. Or is it to hide, well stay out of the press anyway never really sure on that.

garinda · 21-02-2007, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

Refering to The Priory Clinic that seems to be the place to go to get help for a tortured soul.

Have you the number?

I'll book now.

SPUGGIE J · 21-02-2007, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Have you the number?

I'll book now.

http://www.prioryhealthcare.com/Find...nic-Canterbury

http://www.prioryhealthcare.com/Find...tal-Roehampton

I belive the Roehampton is best. See you there G since going to a Kibbutz is out of the question.

garinda · 21-02-2007, 11:34

My friend Tina spent a summer there after leaving school. Unless I'm mistaken, you do have to be Jewish, or at least happy to comply with the Jewish of life, to work on a kibbutz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz

SPUGGIE J · 21-02-2007, 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

My friend Tina spent a summer there after leaving school. Unless I'm mistaken, you do have to be Jewish, or at least happy to comply with the Jewish of life, to work on a kibbutz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz

Does the love of Bagels count?

garinda · 21-02-2007, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

Does the love of Bagels count?

Yes.

I'm afraid Tina's downfall was a love of bacon butties as well as bagels though.

WillowTheWhisp · 21-02-2007, 11:55

It's quite interesting that in the early years of our church they tried a vaguely similar ideal known as 'The Law of Consecration' where basically everybody had their own family life but the men all worked - mostly farming - for the good of all (unless they were too old or ill to work) and the families got back enough food for the size of their family. Alas, that didn't work either. People just aren't very good at it in practice suppose although I think it sounds like a lovely idea. Even here at home sharing of 'chores' leads to arguments and there are huge debates about who had the last bag of crisps or ate too much Philadelphia.

JohnW · 21-02-2007, 12:15

Well isn't this just communism under another name? True communism was never really practiced anywhere, there were always some more equal than others. It's virtually impossible for it to work because there are always too many people ready to take advantage of such situations. For all its faults, capitalism is by far the better way.

WillowTheWhisp · 21-02-2007, 12:50

An excellent observation John. The communist ideal is actually a very noble one - in reality it has never actually been tried. Like George Orwell predicted, some are always more equal than others.

SPUGGIE J · 21-02-2007, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Yes.

I'm afraid Tina's downfall was a love of bacon butties as well as bagels though.

Oh dear so no BLT bagel then.

Thats it I aint going!!!