Keep failing pupils back - Page 2

cashman · 03-09-2007, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less

By the way, so far as large classes, I was part of the post war 'baby boomer's' and we had classes between 30 and 40 but we all knew we had to pay attention when a teacher spoke, perhaps something similar needs to be introduced?

exactly, its my old chestnut "RESPECT" and until something similar is introduced, we can all waffle as much as we want= getting nowhere.

WillowTheWhisp · 03-09-2007, 16:53

There were 40 in my classes at Primary school too but we all learned. One thing which I think helped was that we were split according to ability and taught at our own level which doesn't happen now because it's PC to treat children as if they are all of equal ability which is poppycock. Equal opportunity to learn doesn't mean equal treatment and equal teaching, some need more help than others and some need more supervision than others. Not only does it go over the heads of the less able, it bores the more able so it's only the middle few who are actually being taught at their own ability level. These classes of no more than 30 were supposed to be the answer to the problem but kids today know less than they did in our day - so much for improvements.

Gayle · 03-09-2007, 17:29

St Mary's primary school has a good system but it took me a while to get my head around it at first. Children don't progress at the same rate and so are kept with their ability group rather than it being solely down to age.

For instance there are three year groups in infants but St Mary's have four classes. So a child might do classes 1, 2 and 3 or 2, 3 and 4 or depending on how they progress 1, 2 and 4 etc. The same in juniors where there are five classes but only four year groups, so again a pupil could do any combination of four. So, at any time there could be a combination of year groups in each class, although of course, the top class is always full of the same year group because they're going to be the brightest and the oldest.

I probably haven't explained it very well but it works really well.

BERNADETTE · 03-09-2007, 18:02

I know what you mean they used to do it at Peel Park and then when the children were ready for senior school they used to liase with the teachers from whichever school the child was going to. They were then put into forms according to their ability and if there was a marked improvement in their grades the children were put in another group more suited to their ability. It is a good idea.

shillelagh · 03-09-2007, 22:07

Keeping kids back is a bad idea. Simple reason is that parents want their kids to be in the best primary school. Like baxenden primary school is oversubscribed and if you want your child to go to bash then you go to church long before your child is due to go there, you have your child christened there etc because you know the school is a good one. If you start keeping kids back another year then a parent is going to say oh that school had 5 kids kept back - i dont want to send mine there - i want her to go to peel park because they didnt have any kids kept back. So then that school will be over subscribed. But the kids who do then get into Peel Park may live in Baxenden or up Oswaldtwistle not live in the streets next to it they might have to go to Huncoat or Mount Pleasant or Mary Magdelene. Then with all of that you get parents taking their child to school in the car - more cars on the roads, more greenhouse gases etc. Basically what it comes down to is what the kids are taught. When i was at primary school we got taught maths, english, reading, geography, history, science, re and gym. We had two lessons of gym a week, friday morning before break was re (vicar taught us and he took the assembly on fri mornings), we had science on a wednesday afternoon, swimming on wednesday mornings. Thing is though we didnt have all the different lessons that are taught nowadays - science covered biology, chemistry, physics etc. We didnt have computers - we used books and learnt what the teacher taught us writing on the blackboard. We didnt have calculators we had to use pen and paper. We learnt to read in reception more often than not we knew some of our letters if not all because our parents sat down with us and read us books and we followed the story in the books using the pictures. How many parents nowadays sit down with their kids and read a book to them?

jackyalex · 03-09-2007, 22:30

we have a problem with our 8yr old son,i would hate that he be kept back a year,my son struggles to read,but he can write and spell,which i dont understand everyday we listen to him read,but the same book reread he struggles and the school isnt helping,he is being left out of alot at school because he cant read and we are trying our hardest to teach him,has anyone got any tips that would help

WillowTheWhisp · 03-09-2007, 22:35

I know this may be a dumb question but has he had an eye test? I mean a thorough one? It could be something as simple as the contrast between black print on white paper. Has he tried reading with a coloured acetate overlay?

jackyalex · 03-09-2007, 23:01

yes he has to wear glasses and has had a recent eye test,the school he is at teaches children the phonic alphabet,we think that this may be where we are going wrong at home but have tried many different ways of teaching him, but dont want to confuse him anymore ,i have not had a problem with my eldest child reading just my 8yr old ,the school has not been much help , my 5 yr old brings home reading books from school and these are the books that i now use for my son aswell as my 5yr old,it does seem to be helping a bit,

BERNADETTE · 03-09-2007, 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackyalex

yes he has to wear glasses and has had a recent eye test,the school he is at teaches children the phonic alphabet,we think that this may be where we are going wrong at home but have tried many different ways of teaching him, but dont want to confuse him anymore ,i have not had a problem with my eldest child reading just my 8yr old ,the school has not been much help , my 5 yr old brings home reading books from school and these are the books that i now use for my son aswell as my 5yr old,it does seem to be helping a bit,

Keep on to the school till you get some satisfaction, it sounds to me like he could be dyslexic. There are many ways of dealing with this one of which Willow mentioned in her thread, Good Luck and try not to worry he will get it in the end

jackyalex · 03-09-2007, 23:15

thanks bernie,is there a test for to see if you are dyslexic,if so how would i get him checked

garinda · 03-09-2007, 23:15

How long do they intend to keep people back?

Some might still be there until retirment age.

I acknowledge that children learn things at differing times, but really the only way to ensure all children learn, to the best of their ability, is in smaller class sizes, something this Conservative proposal will only increase the size of.

It is shocking that even today children leave school without adequate numeracy and literacy skills. I do think parents have a part to play in this, as well as the schools. I was no child genius, but I was able to read before starting school on my fourth birthday. A small amount of the parent's time aiding their child's skills, will mean more time at school will be spent on learning more advanced skills, rather than trying to teach the basics.

BERNADETTE · 03-09-2007, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackyalex

thanks bernie,is there a test for to see if you are dyslexic,if so how would i get him checked

I don't know the ins and outs of it as I was fortunate not to have these problems with my two, but there were identical twins at Peel Park when they were and they were both dyslexic. They could both read with different colours over the page(say one was red and the other blue) I think Willows thread mentions it as well.

BERNADETTE · 03-09-2007, 23:32

They don't learn numeracy skills today, they use calculators. I do agree with parents doing all they can to help with reading. At the end of the day if children need extra help it should be available!!

WillowTheWhisp · 04-09-2007, 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackyalex

yes he has to wear glasses and has had a recent eye test,the school he is at teaches children the phonic alphabet,we think that this may be where we are going wrong at home but have tried many different ways of teaching him, but dont want to confuse him anymore ,i have not had a problem with my eldest child reading just my 8yr old ,the school has not been much help , my 5 yr old brings home reading books from school and these are the books that i now use for my son aswell as my 5yr old,it does seem to be helping a bit,

I wasn't meaning just if he needed glasses. Bernadette mentioned dyslexia and that is a bone of contention with me as it's very difficult to get a child checked for it. However there are visual problems linked to dyslexia that aren't necessarily label-able as dyslexia but cause a child problems with reading due to the colour of black print on white paper. I only learned about this after my daughter had a serious accident and was being tutored at LEMS until she was able to go back to school full time. The tutors there tried out various coloured acetate sheets for children to read through and it makes a world of a difference to some of them. Different colours work for different children and they are specific optical colours not just pretty plastic.

There is an optician in Bury who can do these tests. Most opticians aren't qualified to do them. They are very few and far between. The only other one in Lancashire is in Lancaster I was told. It might be worth making an appointment for him with Crowthers in Bury and explaining what his difficulty is. I can get you the phone number if you like. It may mean that he needs specially tinted lenses.

There's also a brilliant system called "Toe-by-Toe" which I could explain more about if the vision thing doesn't help.

jackyalex · 04-09-2007, 09:47

thanks willow,i didnt understand at first what you meant by the colours,i will have a look into this ,i am over 100 miles away from bury so i will see if their is an optitian closer who can do this if my optitian doesnt,is there a name for these tests,just so i dont sound silly when im phoning the optitian,thanks again willow