Keeping Dead Industries Alive....

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Neil

I could arrange that for a modest bribe.
Shall I set up a paypal account for your errrm, donations?

Appoint your own teller as well, plus back up, incase one gets over run in the rush

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

i actually agree it went too far.some people were taking advantage but there was genuine reasons to strike for some people like the miners.i blame james callaghan[lucky jim] for not calling a election early in 1978 when he would have won.followed by the snp for calling a vote of no confidence.that encouraged thatcher to call for a no confidence vote. Callaghan lost by 1 vote

You don't live in the real world, if "Lucky Jim" had won an election what a hell of a mess this country would have been, it would have ben unlucky for Britain, we were already the sick man of Europe, a laughing stock, and why they were baking the labour government cake even in those days, the recipe, first borrow two eggs. Labour have always mastered the art of borrowing, pity they never mastered the art of paying it back.

[GEaston]

Less - Its really not my issue that you don't like the way I support my arguments with either facts or stories found elsewhere. I think the links provide balance and additional information, which is far better than "I'm older and lived the times" followed swiftly thereafter with a degeneration into personal attacks. Just suggests to me that your argument is weak. And I was here throughout the 70's.

We are in complete agreement that the management of the car company were also terrible. I don't doubt that for a moment. I wouldn't though hark back to those times as though they were the good old days, because like the product, they weren't good.

[Lucysgirl]

Originally Posted by Less

If we look around the world, we see Countries with less coal reserves than we have, it is worthwhile for them to have a mining industry.
Why are we the only Country that isn't taking advantage of our own natural resources?

We do still have some private mines, in fact one was shown on TV the other month. As for taking advantage; it depends on the demand as there are different types/grades of coal, some of which are only suitable for furnaces and some suitable for domestic fires.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by GEaston

Less - Its really not my issue that you don't like the way I support my arguments with either facts or stories found elsewhere. I think the links provide balance and additional information, which is far better than "I'm older and lived the times" followed swiftly thereafter with a degeneration into personal attacks. Just suggests to me that your argument is weak. And I was here throughout the 70's.

We are in complete agreement that the management of the car company were also terrible. I don't doubt that for a moment. I wouldn't though hark back to those times as though they were the good old days, because like the product, they weren't good.

The thing is G. that people stopped buying British, because it became unreliable and very dear to boot, and lets not forget even the British stopped buying British, take a look around any home today, from the computer you use, to your TV, Washing Machine, Microwave, Toaster, Fridge, Freezer and how many drive a British car, I would imagine a lot less that 50%

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Lucysgirl

We do still have some private mines, in fact one was shown on TV the other month. As for taking advantage; it depends on the demand as there are different types/grades of coal, some of which are only suitable for furnaces and some suitable for domestic fires.

I'm not hundred percent sure but I think Anthracite is the only coal allowed for domestic fuel

[Less]

Originally Posted by GEaston

Less - Its really not my issue that you don't like the way I support my arguments with either facts or stories found elsewhere. I think the links provide balance and additional information, which is far better than "I'm older and lived the times" followed swiftly thereafter with a degeneration into personal attacks. Just suggests to me that your argument is weak. And I was here throughout the 70's.

We are in complete agreement that the management of the car company were also terrible. I don't doubt that for a moment. I wouldn't though hark back to those times as though they were the good old days, because like the product, they weren't good.

You didn't support an argument of yours with your own opinion, you fell into the same trap as c'mon does, why bother to give an opinion when a link will do?
Additional information is welcome of course, but what would the site end up like if we all did what you and c'mon do?
There would be no original thought from the members just another site that steals it's ideas from the internet.

AccyWeb isn't here for that.

Now you agree that Management were equally to blame but you tended to ignore this in your bash the union posts.
I like to think that throughout I have answered with my own opinions not someone else's and said all along that there were some very bad workers all through the full spectrum of these Companies though my bias is towards the good of all not just a few.

Good old days? For some of us they were absolute hell!

Unfortunately because of the Tory/dem alliance I can see those days returning.

I hope your businesses aren't effected by any of this but think you will be very lucky if they aren't.

[Less]

Originally Posted by jaysay

The thing is G. that people stopped buying British, because it became unreliable and very dear to boot, and lets not forget even the British stopped buying British, take a look around any home today, from the computer you use, to your TV, Washing Machine, Microwave, Toaster, Fridge, Freezer and how many drive a British car, I would imagine a lot less that 50%

You mention computers?
lets look at the history of home grown computers?
The spectrum built by a guy that only wanted to build a tricycle powered by batteries and peddles.
The Amstrad A sugary little item that was rotten just like a set of neglected teeth from eating too many toffees I believe over 50% of them never worked properly when set up by their purchasers.
The Acorn that superduper cutting edge machine that was going to be the BBC's computer of choice. when the BBC executives went to see it the designers had only got their prototype working seconds before they arrived in the room. (A large proportion of whom had left Mr. Sinclair to his car, but that didn't stop him and the boss of Acorn having a girly fight in a Cambridge pub).

Our home grown computers were trash be honest.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Less

You mention computers?
lets look at the history of home grown computers?
The spectrum built by a guy that only wanted to build a tricycle powered by batteries and peddles.
The Amstrad A sugary little item that was rotten just like a set of neglected teeth from eating too many toffees I believe over 50% of them never worked properly when set up by their purchasers.
The Acorn that superduper cutting edge machine that was going to be the BBC's computer of choice. when the BBC executives went to see it the designers had only got their prototype working seconds before they arrived in the room. (A large proportion of whom had left Mr. Sinclair to his car, but that didn't stop him and the boss of Acorn having a girly fight in a Cambridge pub).

Our home grown computers were trash be honest.

Less they do call me Honest John

[Boeing Guy]

Originally Posted by Less

You mention computers?
lets look at the history of home grown computers?
The spectrum built by a guy that only wanted to build a tricycle powered by batteries and peddles.
The Amstrad A sugary little item that was rotten just like a set of neglected teeth from eating too many toffees I believe over 50% of them never worked properly when set up by their purchasers.
The Acorn that superduper cutting edge machine that was going to be the BBC's computer of choice. when the BBC executives went to see it the designers had only got their prototype working seconds before they arrived in the room. (A large proportion of whom had left Mr. Sinclair to his car, but that didn't stop him and the boss of Acorn having a girly fight in a Cambridge pub).

Our home grown computers were trash be honest.

Well lets look at the competition then, Commodore VIC 20 not as good as the PET, although the C64 was quite good.
Tandy TRS-80......
Atari's offerings.........
I think most computers at the time were rather bad, to be fair.

The thing is Sir Clive and Chris Curry (Acorn) were rather clever chaps,
Between them they paved the way forward, okay the major players are foreign, Apple, Dell, Sony etc, but without the pioneers we would live in a very different world.

On a side note, do any of our members have a mobile phone? If so inside that is a Micro chip that was developed by Chris Curry back in the 80's just for the BBC Micro. Its Name ARM, the company made £160 Million last year and they are British.

Sir Clive Sinclair, well there's a true genius and eccentric, but to be honest he saw the future, electric cars, albeit the C5 was not his finest moment, but he had vision, something lacking in most of us these days.
Speaking of the C5, didn't Segway copy the idea?????

[Lucysgirl]

Originally Posted by jaysay

I'm not hundred percent sure but I think Anthracite is the only coal allowed for domestic fuel

I was window shopping with my daughter. In a large store we came upon a group of shoppers looking at a display of wood burning stoves. It seemed I was the only one old enough to know about grates, flues and dampers and I found myself giving a demo to quite a large crowd.

[Lucysgirl]

Originally Posted by Less

You mention computers?
lets look at the history of home grown computers?
The spectrum built by a guy that only wanted to build a tricycle powered by batteries and peddles.
The Amstrad A sugary little item that was rotten just like a set of neglected teeth from eating too many toffees I believe over 50% of them never worked properly when set up by their purchasers.
The Acorn that superduper cutting edge machine that was going to be the BBC's computer of choice. when the BBC executives went to see it the designers had only got their prototype working seconds before they arrived in the room. (A large proportion of whom had left Mr. Sinclair to his car, but that didn't stop him and the boss of Acorn having a girly fight in a Cambridge pub).

Our home grown computers were trash be honest.

Haha how true. I would have liked a computer for my small company accounts which had got too large for a one man band and before purchasing one enrolled in an evening class in 1982. All the students thought we'd would be taught how to operate a computer, but we soon learnt that 'cheap' computers needed to be programmed "if" .... I decided to wait until the market provided something for small commercial companies - I've still got my Pascal notes.

A year later an entrepreneur put his programmed computer onto the market priced at £1,700 (hm can't recall the name; "Black Commander" or "Knight Commander"). I think we sent back two floppy disks which had been distorted in the post before I could input all my accounts. I kicked the machine into touch when it deleted all records of suppliers/customers when accounts had been paid but the binary code did come in handy for our R&D chap. UK Computer suppliers didn't cater for small companies the price of modules at £22K to £28 each module was too costly when you needed about five. Plus you had to pay an annual sum for a "key code" which would allow you to use your computer for another year. I heard horrendous stories of programmers who left the employ of their computer company and didn't leave "key/code" records for their replacements to use.

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by Lucysgirl

I was window shopping with my daughter. In a large store we came upon a group of shoppers looking at a display of wood burning stoves. It seemed I was the only one old enough to know about grates, flues and dampers and I found myself giving a demo to quite a large crowd.

Could you see the Ipodpadphone generation of today laying a fire every morning and tending to it all day?
Unless it has an on/off button they ain't interested

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by Less

You mention computers?
lets look at the history of home grown computers?

Our home grown computers were trash be honest.

And oh how we oohed and aahed when they hummed into life, our tentative stabs at the keyboard to have a few pixels say "Happy Christmas" on the monitor and the banshee screech of the C30 cassette as we loaded up Jet Set Willie or Manic Miner.

Without that trash where would we be now Less.....
Summat about little acorns and small beginnings **
With a bit of help from Tim Berners Lee look what we can do with these little black plastic boxes now.
"Hell some peeps can even hold a decent dialogue and exchange of ideas" *chuckle*

**Where have I heard that b4 ?

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Less

Strange isn't it, you started this thread claiming it was a debate, a debate that started with a link to someone else's opinions because you didn't put forward any of your own, (c'mon is famous for that kind of thing), now you no longer wish to debate you prefer to lecture, a lecture that no doubt would be fitting for any secondary school class but not for folk that lived through the times.
Yes BL was crap, but it was crap from the top down, inferior designs, materials and man management, huh, man management now that was a joke, yes there were plenty of strikes I've already said I'm against such action, yes there were some that would strike over nothing and yes there was a management system in place that seemed to go out of it's way to ensure that those strikes came about and continued.
It isn't just the Unions that have gone, it is the terrible Management that has also been removed, I think you will find that the system now in place works because everyone in these companies is now proud of their product and at last they all work together.
No longer is work disrupted by either side because there isn't an either side just a team working together with one aim, get the best product we can make through the door on time.
Something that never happened at BL or any of the other divided factories.

It's not only in the land of Uk that garbage automobiles are produced by a sick company ... look at Chrysler; that company has been on the ropes more times than Don Cockle in a title fight. Now they make damn fine vehicles. And how are the nips doing?

6 automakers part of massive recall of 3.4 million airbags - Montreal - CBC News

And this is only the latest in a run of recalls.

Feel like flying?

Boeing 737 review ordered by FAA for faulty tail part - Business - CBC News

Faulty and substandard products can come from anywhere.

As long any company has management interested in good labor relations, and a work force which feels as if it has a stake in success by getting a fair share of that success, that company will profitably produce good products. And there are roles for government, management, and labor. Remember the bailout of Chrysler and GM. Billions from government ... that includes money from my taxes as Canada and Ontario forked over a whole bunch of cash ... billions in concessions from the UAW and the CAW, and management that worked their butts off to make good automobiles at a reasonable price.

Many companies that are written off as dead are merely sick. Many can be cured. It takes effort and creativity. By the way, last year I rode one of the new Triumphs .... fantastic bike. Gone are the quirky Amal carbs and the Lucas "Prince of Darkness" electrics.