Kids behavior no worse than before - Page 7

garinda · 17-02-2009, 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caz

Well I have 2 at Uni and 3 in good jobs, and never had a spare penny to my name.

Just because you come from a low income family doesn't mean you can't pull yourself up by the bootstraps.

Even in some poor parenting families , some kids go on to succeed despite that fact.

That's quite true.

Historically this part of the world has always been a low income area.

Ninety years ago children were educated for a lesser amount of time than today, but were more literate, and many had a desire to continue their education, either by attending night schools, or just plain reading. Which was hard to do when you've worked a ten hour shift.

garinda · 17-02-2009, 01:32

As for Grange Hill, I think that really just reflected some schools by the mid seventies, the results of the wooly liberals that started to take over the education system in the late '60's.

Don't call me Sir, call me Steve.

cashman · 17-02-2009, 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

As for Grange Hill, I think that really just reflected some schools by the mid seventies, the results of the wooly liberals that started to take over the education system in the late '60's.

Don't call me Sir, call me Steve.

not just the schools those prats have wrecked society.

garinda · 17-02-2009, 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

not just the schools those prats have wrecked society.

Mancie · 17-02-2009, 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

That's quite true.

Historically this part of the world has always been a low income area.

Ninety years ago children were educated for a lesser amount of time than today, but were more literate, and many had a desire to continue their education, either by attending night schools, or just plain reading. Which was hard to do when you've worked a ten hour shift.

This area.. you mean Accrington/Ossy..maybe low income on a national scale but you maybe forget that the minium wage is nationwide.. a cleaner in London earns the same per hour as anywhere else even as the cost of rent/housing is massive compared to Accrington... you peolple do live in some sort of fantasy world were you think everything comes to people that work hard....people do work hard and bring up their kids the best they can but it is not that simple.. Accrington is a good, well educated town compared to lots of other places... you should be proud rather than slag off the not so good.. grumpy old folks comes to mind

garinda · 17-02-2009, 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

This area.. you mean Accrington/Ossy..maybe low income on a national scale but you maybe forget that the minium wage is nationwide.. a cleaner in London earns the same per hour as anywhere else even as the cost of rent/housing is massive compared to Accrington... you peolple do live in some sort of fantasy world were you think everything comes to people that work hard....people do work hard and bring up their kids the best they can but it is not that simple.. Accrington is a good, well educated town compared to lots of other places... you should be proud rather than slag off the not so good.. grumpy old folks comes to mind

Er...you do seem to forget that I lived in London for seventeen years.

My comments about this area ninety years ago weren't geographically specific. The same could be said about the poorer parts of the East End.

People who were poor weren't necessarily uneducated, partly because of the school system introduced after the Education Bill of 1902, and partly because there was a desire to learn for it's own sake, by whatever means, be it night schools, or making use of the free public libraries.

Mancie · 17-02-2009, 02:09

oh .. cram large families into up public libraries to take the slim chance that they will get education.. my my.. you are victorian ain't you.. maybe stick em up chimneys first just to make them aware of the great gift you.. and your foward thinking like minds are giving the future.. lovely stuff.. from a victorian!

Mancie · 17-02-2009, 02:16

plain fact is.. you people from "the hills".. have not done to bad out of the many recessions this country have had to endure.. you'll always have apples, black pudding,pies,low alcolhol beer,tripe,UFO's, whitchcraft,walkin around looking hard, ... and most of all your attitude that the whole world turns around you.. good night and god bless!

garinda · 17-02-2009, 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

oh .. cram large families into up public libraries to take the slim chance that they will get education.. my my.. you are victorian ain't you.. maybe stick em up chimneys first just to make them aware of the great gift you.. and your foward thinking like minds are giving the future.. lovely stuff.. from a victorian!

If you'd take off the same narrow blinkers the Tory supporters on here wear, you might see that I'm not saying that at all.

Ninety odd years ago, because of the reforms in the education system, a formal education was an entitlement for all, regardless of background. Even though children weren't educated for as many years as today, they were more literate. Everything from their copperplate handwriting, to their encyclopedic knowledge of the world testifies to this.

Compared to today's post-war, post-hippy liberalism, post-Thatcherism, call it what you will, our education system, which generally, but not exclusively, has produced a generation more concerned with what they can own in way of material possessions, than what they can possess in their minds, is most unfortunate for society, in my opinion.

SamF · 17-02-2009, 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Those are the very people able to make real comparissons, because they experienced the education system in the past, and their children/grandchildren are experiencing it now.

Basic common sense.

Did they teach you nothing in school?

Anything but first hand experience is irrelevant in this context though, *every* person in the country has been through the education system and therefore there are over 60 million second hand accounts.

You are saying that people can make a fair comparison as they have been in the education system themselves and then have had children/grandchildren who have been through it as well, however if you reverse that I have parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents, friends and work colleagues that have all been through the education system and would probably give a more honest account of their experiences (children and grandchild have the vested interest of not telling *you* anything that might let you down) and yet it would still be foolish to think that a fair comparison can be made from subjective recollections from decades ago.

Plus there is the fact that everyone has a personal attachment to their own particular education system as it has a huge input on ones personality - this leads to subjective debate rather than objective debate and subjective debate is only ever won on numbers - meaning here on AccyWeb it will always be "better back in my day"...

garinda · 17-02-2009, 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

plain fact is.. you people from "the hills".. have not done to bad out of the many recessions this country have had to endure.. you'll always have apples, black pudding,pies,low alcolhol beer,tripe,UFO's, whitchcraft,walkin around looking hard, ... and most of all your attitude that the whole world turns around you.. good night and god bless!

Don't forget that besides poverty, London also has more wealth than the rest of the country combined.

Still, you'll always get a few coppers thrown in your cap, whilst dressed as a Pearly King, and doing the Lambeth Walk on the streets of shining gold.

garinda · 17-02-2009, 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamF

Anything but first hand experience is irrelevant in this context

Why is the context of the educational system different from anything else?

Thankfully I personally don't have first hand experience of Auschwitz and Belsen...but I know they were bad.

The same goes for the education system, and the behaviour of pupils.

Mancie · 17-02-2009, 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Don't forget that besides poverty, London also has more wealth than the rest of the country combined.

Still, you'll always get a few coppers thrown in your cap, whilst dressed as a Pearly King, and doing the Lambeth Walk on the streets of shining gold.

besides having the same basic wage .. now .. I don't need coppers in my cap.. but it's an arrogant, ingorant view that Accrington is a depressed town full of aggro from school kids..get real.. and don't slag off your youth when you don't really know.

garinda · 17-02-2009, 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

besides having the same basic wage .. now .. I don't need coppers in my cap.. but it's an arrogant, ingorant view that Accrington is a depressed town full of aggro from school kids..get real.. and don't slag off your youth when you don't really know.

Again, blinkers off please, then you might read what I actually said.

The problem is nationwide, from Accrington to Acton.

garinda · 17-02-2009, 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

besides having the same basic wage .. now .. I don't need coppers in my cap.. but it's an arrogant, ingorant view that Accrington is a depressed town full of aggro from school kids..get real.. and don't slag off your youth when you don't really know.

Tomorrow why don't you go and engage the young people of SW9, or from some of the estates behind Kings Cross, and debate with them how the education system has equipped them, both educationally and behaviourally, to face the world of today?