Labour's real legacy

[entwisi]

In my area at work it is ~80% grads, 20% thickos, (I'm in the thickos btw), I would have the 20 % over the 80 any day apart from a very few select intelligency...

It's not what you were taught, its what you know that counts imho

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

How can you demand something that isn't there?
It is like going into a shop for a pound of apples....the chap says 'We haven't any apples'....and you come away having bought a bag of spuds(mouldy rotten ones at that...because you were not allowed to really see what you were buying)
To me that sums up politics.

Sorry, just means ever to get re-elected, Labour had to ditch socialism, and out Tory the Tories, to have any appeal to the country.

That's why Thatcher liked Blair.

He was her heir apparent.

[garinda]

I was lucky.

I was an infuriating clever clogs years before I ever graduated.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by garinda

Sorry, just means ever to get re-elected, Labour had to ditch socialism, and out Tory the Tories, to have any appeal to the country.

That's why Thatcher liked Blair.

He was her heir apparent.

Spot on again, had same discussion wi jaysay a while back n he didn't disagree. in fact the only people i ever spoke too,that don't get it are those that were too young or not born then. n ones brewing up now. pmsl

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by garinda

Sorry, just means ever to get re-elected, Labour had to ditch socialism, and out Tory the Tories, to have any appeal to the country.

That's why Thatcher liked Blair.

He was her heir apparent.

I agree Blair and "New Labour" did ditch socialism not only to be more appealing to the electorate, but to be more attractive to the age old Tory press.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Mancie

I agree Blair and "New Labour" did ditch socialism not only to be more appealing to the electorate, but to be more attractive to the age old Tory press.

Yes.

Blair whored himself to the press barons, and was amply rewarded for his favours.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Alan Varrechia

Welcome to Toryism Margaret.

Will you explain that for me please?

I don't think one party is guilty of this ploy. They all do it.

[Margaret Pilkington]

If voting really changed anything ....do you think they would allow us to do it?

All parties are guilty of the same behaviour. On the run up to elections they make promises that they have no way of knowing whether they will be able to fulfil(mainly because only the party in government have the true picture of the countries economic health)....they tell us what they think we want to know/hear.

None of the political parties listen to those who put them into the jobs they hold..

So, I don't really agree that our present situation is all down to choices we made in the past.
You can only choose between a set of equally untruthful men and women who have their own agendas in mind....not the good of the country.

[cmonstanley]

the public were brain washed by news international,dumbed down by sky etc. off topic but what other newspaper did murdoch shut down in the nineties

[cmonstanley]

Originally Posted by g jones

It said on Radio 4 this afternoon that this was an improvement on previous figures. I think by and large Labour's legacy is good one. The first post war government to cut crime - by 42%! Educational standards rising amongst middle and upper class. Black marks for working class which has been static. Kings Fund says the NHS is no longer the sick man of Europe (and on the verge of collapse) and doing very well. Introduced current welfare to work policy in 2008. Late but effective. Introduced points system on immigration. Tories don't seem to be able to go further. Real issues around border control.

When you consider what Labour inherited. A national debt of 42%. Crime out of control. Schools with leaky roofs and portakabins. NHS with people waiting on trolleys in corridors and waiting lists that lasted years and years.

here here

[g jones]

Crime was cut. Police say so. Resident groups say so. Michael Howard says so. Even local Tories say so. Living in Peel Ward it is obvious to all crime has been cut considerably.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

So, I don't really agree that our present situation is all down to choices we made in the past.

After Thatcher came to power in '79, the country rejected the Labour party of Foot and Kinnock, time after time.

The majority of the British people made their choices.

Hence Labour ditched anything vaguely socialist, and were reborn as something new. New Labour.

The same thing happened to the Tories, when people chose not to elect them, thrice consecutively, and thought they'd become unelectable.

They weren't the choice of the majority, so they aped New Labour, dropped 'hang 'em and flog 'em', in favour of the caring and sharing, and not forgetting hoodie hugging.

Through our choices we have been left with near identical mainstream poltical parties, peopled by careerist politicans, nearly all from a few public schools, and with similar degrees from Oxbridge.

We do get what we demand.

It's supply and demand.

Same as printed media.

Yes we have a few serious publicatons, but our biggest selling magazine's big news story this week is that the girls from The Only Way is Essex are on a diet, and our newspaper with the highest circulation is full of tits, telly, and tedious titillation.

We do make choices, and therefore are supplied with what others think will satisfy those choices.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

the public were brain washed by news international,dumbed down by sky etc. off topic but what other newspaper did murdoch shut down in the nineties

You'd need to be dumbed up, before the dumbing down could take place.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by g jones

Crime was cut.

Though this certainly wasn't the case with immigration.

More than three million migrants under Labour - Telegraph

Though that's only offical immigration figure, and doesn't count the appalling attempts to stem illegal immigration in the last decade, and Labour's support for an ever expanding boundry of the E.U., and the fact that milions more will be making their way to our shores.

Though of course we all know that even raising this issue risks the label of bigot or racist, as Gillian Duffy found out after meeting Prime Ministar Brown.

[garinda]

...and let's not forget the gravest impediment ever made to British law and justice, the Human Right Acts, 1998.