Labour's real legacy - Page 4

garinda · 04-08-2011, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

And we are stuck with Capitalism .

Historically it's proved more successful than socialism, when it comes turning an ideology into a reality.

I agree about delaying employment, by sending people on Micky Mouse university courses.

I disagree with art being taught as an academic subject.

Most of our greatest artists and designers don't have degrees.

Tealeaf · 04-08-2011, 10:03

[quote=garinda;923402

Most of our greatest artists and designers don't have degrees.[/quote]

Tracey Emin does.

jaysay · 04-08-2011, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

Tracey Emin does.

Thick the term artiste should be used very loosely where shes concerned Tealeaf

Margaret Pilkington · 04-08-2011, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

The problem with almost forcing people to go to uni for sometimes pointless courses is there are no jobs for them at the end of it.

We have a shortage of craftsmen and labourers in this country because everyone thinks they need to go to uni. These jobs are being picked up by people from other countries but we still have a large number of unemployed people. Its a bit stupid and that is being kind.

I agree and think I made that point earlier in the thread.

There was something in one of the newspapers recently, to say that those children who aren't academically gifted should be allowed to leave school at 14 and take a job........where are these jobs that they want 14 year olds to do?

I think that somewhere along the way, the work ethic has been lost.
Welfare benefits are to blame for this. It is(for some people) easier to claim benefits than to go out to work.
Whole families who have never worked,(and so have never paid into the system they are draining) and don't want to work, are crippling the country.

It may not be PC to say this, but that is how I see it.

MargaretR · 04-08-2011, 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

I disagree with art being taught as an academic subject.

Most of our greatest artists and designers don't have degrees.

My eldest granddaughter is taking an art degree at Manchester.
It is geared towards animation (cartoons) and illustration (of books I suppose). These skills are needed in the media and advertising industry.

I don't suppose that a naturally gifted arty person would know how to produce cartoons, so the training and the degree would be useful.

garinda · 04-08-2011, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MargaretR

My eldest granddaughter is taking an art degree at Manchester.
It is geared towards animation (cartoons) and illustration (of books I suppose). These skills are needed in the media and advertising industry.

I don't suppose that a naturally gifted arty person would know how to produce cartoons, so the training and the degree would be useful.

Having a honours degree in art myself, I disagree.

I see study in this area as futhering a skill, or learning a craft.

I don't think it's necessary for this to be studied as a academic subject.

I certainly knew very talented people who were denied access to further education at the highest level, because they didn't have enough O/A-level passes to qualify for entry.

The most commercially successful artist I know didn't even go to art school. He apprenticed himself to a painter straight after his O-levels.

garinda · 04-08-2011, 11:04

Regarding art, having a degree never secured me one job.

That was down to whatever talent I may have, and not a piece of paper.

garinda · 04-08-2011, 11:10

I know innumerous people who have studied for degrees in sport, or media.

None subsequently gained employment in those, or even remotely similar fields.

jaysay · 04-08-2011, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

I know innumerous people who have studied for degrees in sport, or media.

None subsequently gained employment in those, or even remotely similar fields.

How many times do you see people on TV who say they have a degree yet are doing only the most menial jobs, can't see the point myself

Margaret Pilkington · 04-08-2011, 14:23

a lot of the time people do not want to pay the wage that a graduate would expect to get....and because they want to work and minimise their student debt, they will take any job they can get.
After all you have to live, to eat, to keep a roof over your head....and it is always easier to get a job when you are in a job.

jaysay · 04-08-2011, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

a lot of the time people do not want to pay the wage that guy is so well educated he is classed as a professora graduate would expect to get....and because they want to work and minimise their student debt, they will take any job they can get.
After all you have to live, to eat, to keep a roof over your head....and it is always easier to get a job when you are in a job.

I know a bloke who went to university and qualified as a metallurgist or something apparently he was very clued up with mining and soils and that kind of thing, he first went to live in Africa where he worked on mining projects for a few years, then came back here since when he has never worked because he said no one can pay him the wage he deserves, this guy is so well train he is actually classed as a professor, yet he hasn't worked since around 1978 marvelous ain't it

Neil · 04-08-2011, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

a lot of the time people do not want to pay the wage that a graduate would expect to get....

Is that not because they dont need someone with a degree to do the job?

Why would an employer pay more just because someone is over qualified for a job?

jaysay · 04-08-2011, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

Is that not because they dont need someone with a degree to do the job?

Why would an employer pay more just because someone is over qualified for a job?

Ya don't need a degree to stack shelves at ASDA

Margaret Pilkington · 04-08-2011, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

Is that not because they dont need someone with a degree to do the job?

Why would an employer pay more just because someone is over qualified for a job?

It could very well be the case Neil.
But we are giving our youngsters the message that if they go to Uni, work hard and get a degree,it will open doors for them....and it just doesn't happen like that....... unless the degree is in a subject that the jobs market has need of.
We should be advising our youngsters to look at what jobs are in the jobs market before they embark on a degree.....and to get a degree that they can see is what employers want......this is not to say, that in the three years it takes to get a degree, the jobs market won't have changed.