Lancashire County Council Flag Ban

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by garinda

...and four years on I still totally disagree with your point of view, that if you see a flag, Union or English, outside of a football tournament, that has fascist connotations.

I never said that - I said that if the Union Flag was flying on a house outside a sports event, then it would probably be there for a reason. Yes there will be exceptions, and yes of course there are people who are patriotic but not BNP - I'm one of them - but I wouldn't fly a flag outside of a sporting occasion, just as most people wouldn't.

And perhaps it is wrong to make assumptions or stereotype people but we're all guilty of that - don't they say that a person has a job within 3minutes of the interview because that's how quickly we take to decide.

Originally Posted by garinda

Just as the best criminals never get caught, most right-wing extremists aren't skinheads, wearing Docs, and waving the Union Jack.

Not arguing with you on this point. Nick Griffin always wears a suit. And the flip side of that is that I'm married to a skinhead and he's one of the gentlest and most liberal people I've ever met.

Originally Posted by garinda

You see many more Union Jacks at Proms in the Parks concerts, than you do at any extremist rallies nowadays.

This is completely taking my comments the wrong way because all of these things - Geri Halliwell, town halls, sports event, proms etc are using the flags in context and I never once said that was racist.

In six months time when all the World Cup brewhaha has died down and we're losing at cricket and rugby again, I'll take you round a couple of houses, we'll find some reason to knock on the doors and we'll see what your impression of the residents is. Remember, I knocked on those doors four years ago.

[Gayle]

And just for the record - I don't happen to like it. I think the flag should be able to be flown from a persons house without it having any connotations. I think the flag should be reclaimed, and perhaps it slowly is, perhaps we should all keep our flags up after the World Cup ends - I wonder how many people will though?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle

And just for the record - I don't happen to like it. I think the flag should be able to be flown from a persons house without it having any connotations. I think the flag should be reclaimed, and perhaps it slowly is, perhaps we should all keep our flags up after the World Cup ends - I wonder how many people will though?

Lots of people did last time, as the Euro tournament we were in, was only 24 months after the World Cup.

Rather an odd position for me, being the least jingoistic person I know, defending people's right to display the national flags, but I honestly don't believe today, or for the past fifteen years or so, that there is any connotation between the Union, and English flags, and extremist politics.

You really can't judge by appearance.

As stated, the most disgusting racist I ever came into contact locally, I never saw with any British flag.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by garinda

Lots of people did last time, as the Euro tournament we were in, was only 24 months after the World Cup.

Rather an odd position for me, being the least jingoistic person I know, defending people's right to display the national flags, but I honestly don't believe today, or for the past fifteen years or so, that there is any connotation between the Union, and English flags, and extremist politics.

You really can't judge by appearance.

As stated, the most disgusting racist I ever came into contact locally, I never saw with any British flag.

I would also defend anyone's right to fly the flag. In fact, if more people did then it wouldn't have the connotations that it does. Unfortunately, I think you're in the minority if you don't believe that a house flying the Union Flag isn't doing it to make a specific point, other than simple patriotism.

As for racists - I came across a very smart one in Pendle once and he didn't have a flag. I never once said that all racists came with it imprinted on their foreheads.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle

I would also defend anyone's right to fly the flag. In fact, if more people did then it wouldn't have the connotations that it does. Unfortunately, I think you're in the minority if you don't believe that a house flying the Union Flag isn't doing it for a reason, other than simple patriotism.

As for racists - I came across a very smart one in Pendle once and he didn't have a flag. I never once said that all racists came with it imprinted on their foreheads.

No, but you implied that any house displaying a flag, outside a football tournament, and all those who live there, are extremist nationalists. Hence your decision not to canvas those homes, irrespective of other people residing there, who perhaps had no say about a flag being displayed.

As for being in a minority, from the replies in the various threads, it isn't me that's in a minority.

Ever since the Cool Britannia thing in the mid nineties, main stream fashion houses, from Hacketts to Harrods, have used both the imagery of the Union and St. George Cross flags, on everything from knitwear to cufflinks, with absolutely no connotation to right-wing politics.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by garinda

No, but you implied that any house displaying a flag, outside a football tournament, and all those who live there, are extremist nationalists. Hence your decision not to canvas those homes, irrespective of other people residing there, who perhaps had no say about a flag being displayed.

I did canvas those homes, I spent about six months visiting houses throughout Oswaldtwistle and in that time I learnt where I was likely to get a good reception and where I was likely to get abused, ranted at or sworn at. So after a bit I started to recognise some identifying features and some similarities so that I could avoid being abused, ranted at or sworn at. And yes, the Union Flag flying was one of those identifying features. Again, just for the record, I still delivered leaflets to those houses on the off chance that some of the residents there might be receptive, but I never knocked again because not unsurprisingly, I didn't like being abused, ranted at or sworn at.

[garinda]

Even in the late seventies, when the National Front could have said to have hijacked the Union flag, you also had the Mod revivalists, a very racially diverse youth culture, proudly displaying the Union Jack sewn on to the back of their parkas, and dancing to ska.

No one thought of them being the slightest bit racist.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle

I did canvas those homes, I spent about six months visiting houses throughout Oswaldtwistle and in that time I learnt where I was likely to get a good reception and where I was likely to get abused, ranted at or sworn at. So after a bit I started to recognise some identifying features and some similarities so that I could avoid being abused, ranted at or sworn at. And yes, the Union Flag flying was one of those identifying features. Again, just for the record, I still delivered leaflets to those houses on the off chance that some of the residents there might be receptive, but I never knocked again because not unsurprisingly, I didn't like being abused, ranted at or sworn at.

Originally Posted by Gayle

When I was campaigning the other year I just knew to stay away from houses with the union jack flag flying outside - and yes there are a few in Ossy.

Don't worry, I bet anyone with a red rosette gets abused at Jaysay's.

Just be thankful he doesn't live in St. Andrew's ward.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by garinda

Don't worry, I bet anyone with a red rosette gets abused at Jaysay's.

Just be thankful he doesn't live in St. Andrew's ward.

I was invited in, had a coffee and managed to get out alive.

I doubt I'd be so lucky a second time.....

[cashman]

Originally Posted by garinda

Don't worry, I bet anyone with a red rosette gets abused at Jaysay's.

Just be thankful he doesn't live in St. Andrew's ward.

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

I was invited in, had a coffee and managed to get out alive.

I doubt I'd be so lucky a second time.....

well i never get abused up yon, in fact normal form is sitting laughing at certain people.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

Don't worry, I bet anyone with a red rosette gets abused at Jaysays.

Just be thankful he doesn't live in St. Andrew's ward.

Nothing of the sort, people with red rosette's have been know to inadvertently knock on my door, on opening the door I've been greeted with oops sorry, then exit stage left without me opening my mouth, maybe the look was enough

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

I was invited in, had a coffee and managed to get out alive.

I doubt I'd be so lucky a second time.....

All are welcome at my humble abode, even for a second time

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

well i never get abused up yon, in fact normal form is sitting laughing at certain people.

Ya and they're certainly worth the laugh cashy

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Ya and they're certainly worth the laugh cashy

Must be a false rumour then, that Last of the Summer Wine was ending.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by Gayle

A bit worrying when this happens - but I agree with you.

Why should it just be during the World Cup? Unfortunately a certain group of people took the Union Jack and abused for their own racist purposes to the point where regular, normal, patriotic people got too scared to display the Union Jack for fear of looking as though they belonged to a racist sect.

So by your Logic I'm some kind of Nationalist thug ?? All the Germans on their allotments are raging Nazis ?? as they & I fly our flags continually regardless of the season & occasion ! The Portuguese down the road & as to the Eyeties ? raging fascists ? All these peoples fly their flags throughout the year. To me it just means they are proud of their heritage although they live away from their Country of origin.

And I think you will find that to be the case with many folk in the UK, they fly their flag as a matter of pride, not to make any sort of Nationalist statement. But there lies the problem ! Because when people think in the same way as you appear to be doing any signs of national pride are construed as having Nationalistic, extremist connotations & should therefore be brought to book. What a sorry state for a Country to be in, words fail me.