latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead

[accyman]

has there ever been given a reason why we wernt asked to vote on that matter ?

[Wynonie Harris]

...a variety of excuses, we were given a vote in 1975, we don't do things by referendum in this country etc. The real reason is...they know what the answer would be!

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by accyman

has there ever been given a reason why we wernt asked to vote on that matter ?

Now if you were a conspiracy buff you would say -
Democracy is an illusion because all political parties work to the same agenda(decided by the Bilderburg Group) aiming at World Government

[accyman]

ill just put it down to our country been run by egotisticle pricks high on power

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by accyman

ill just put it down to our country been run by egotisticle pricks high on power

You have been googling 'Bildeburg' haven't you

[Stumped]

Originally Posted by Mancie

when you say "scroungers" does that include the Tory landed gentry who will get massive benefits just for set aside acres of land ready for the return of fox hunting?... does it include the 20% of working people on the minimum wage that the Tories will revoke?
There's no two ways about it .. the less well off will pay the price for any Tory "recovery programme".. the Tories have never had an agenda were the rich pay more than the poor in society..it is simply something they do not believe and never have.

A scrounger in my book is a collective name for those who are able and fit to work, but do all in their power to avoid having to do so - and there are plenty of them about. The ones I feel sorry for are the youngsters leaving school who have little or no chance of finding 'career' employment outside the service industry which is what the UK is all about these days. I truly have no allegiance or affiliation to any political party, and see no likelihood in any of the present opponent groups being able to improve our lot whilst we remain under the mantle of Europe.

You could always stand as in independent, Mancie. I'm sure that our host of like minded subscribers will rally to your cause with contributions towards your deposit!

[Eric]

Originally Posted by andrewb

At least you're honest enough to admit that you don't really care what policies they hold, you just don't believe they work for the poor.

I profoundly disagree with you, but you're being honest and we can just agree to disagree.

Policies are largely irrelevant ... they are like war aims, the aim to rid Iraq of WMDs for example, which tend to disappear once "victory" has been achieved. They are then replaced with other imperatives. What are important are not particular policies, but underlying philosophies.

[accyman]

Originally Posted by Eric

Policies are largely irrelevant ... they are like war aims, the aim to rid Iraq of WMDs for example, which tend to disappear once "victory" has been achieved. They are then replaced with other imperatives. What are important are not particular policies, but underlying philosophies.

is that a more detailed explination of say whatever it gets to gain power and deliver nothing once power is gained ?

tony blair broke every single prommise he made to gain power within a few months of becoming PM, he caused teh mess we are in now with teh economey and the mess in teh middle east and in my eyes gordon brown will always be the guy that got landed with the mes tony blair left behind and even though gordon brown was part of what tony blair did be rest assured if he didnt do things the way tony blair wanted he would have been gone and somone else would have taken his job who would have done as tony blair demanded

im not saying gordon brown is a good prime minister but he sure as hell isnt responsible for most of teh mess the country is tony blair is largley resposible but he buggered off before he got any backlash from the public and was seen for what he is which is a blithering idiot and a war criminal

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by Eric

Policies are largely irrelevant ... they are like war aims, the aim to rid Iraq of WMDs for example, which tend to disappear once "victory" has been achieved. They are then replaced with other imperatives. What are important are not particular policies, but underlying philosophies.

I think policies are very, very important. It has never been Labours 'underlying philosophy' to make the poor poorer, to make it that some of the lowest paid workers are taxed 96 pence in the pound for every extra hour worked over their contracted hours - heck I doubt it was Labours underlying philosophy to allow our economy to be the worst prepared for recession than any other industrialised country. Their policies however have allowed this to happen.

I don't for a second believe that the 'wicked tories' want the poorest unemployed, as if it gives them some pleasure, as Mancie would have people believe. It's very easy for Mancie to just come along and write a loud of nonsense. The problem he has is that it is just that - a load of nonsense. Just take for example his view that 'the Conservatives would get rid of the minimum wage', it's rubbish, but it's politically useful for him to get angry about. As the saying goes, why let the truth get in the way of a good story.

[Stumped]

Originally Posted by accyman

is that a more detailed explination of say whatever it gets to gain power and deliver nothing once power is gained ?

tony blair broke every single prommise he made to gain power within a few months of becoming PM, he caused teh mess we are in now with teh economey and the mess in teh middle east and in my eyes gordon brown will always be the guy that got landed with the mes tony blair left behind and even though gordon brown was part of what tony blair did be rest assured if he didnt do things the way tony blair wanted he would have been gone and somone else would have taken his job who would have done as tony blair demanded

im not saying gordon brown is a good prime minister but he sure as hell isnt responsible for most of teh mess the country is tony blair is largley resposible but he buggered off before he got any backlash from the public and was seen for what he is which is a blithering idiot and a war criminal

Blair's Legacy, apart from saddling Bumbling Brown with the responsibilty of overseeing the final ruination of the country. And then it rained . . . and rained . . . and rained some more!

Crude Britannia
(The true face of Blair’s Britain)
© Stumped 2001

LAND OF HOPE AND GLORY
Where hope has largely been eradicated,
And glory is something that once was.

MOTHER OF THE FREE . . . and easy.
Where the working man exists solely to ensure
that the criminal and the work-shy attain a better
standard of living than himself.

HOW SHALL WE EXTOL THEM
Whereas fat-cats, pop icons and footballers are lauded,
the real heroes: men and women of the armed forces,
the health service, the emergency services and the
teaching profession, are vilified and castigated by those
that they would deem to serve.

WHO WERE BORN OF THEE
Where the sanctity and values of marriage and
family life seem to have been subjugated by the
immoral preachings of the combined media, with
little or no interference from the sitting government.

The End

[claytonender]

Originally Posted by andrewb

I don't for a second believe that the 'wicked tories' want the poorest unemployed, as if it gives them some pleasure, as Mancie would have people believe. It's very easy for Mancie to just come along and write a loud of nonsense. The problem he has is that it is just that - a load of nonsense. Just take for example his view that 'the Conservatives would get rid of the minimum wage', it's rubbish, but it's politically useful for him to get angry about. As the saying goes, why let the truth get in the way of a good story.

On the subject of the minimum wage - there was a private members bill (put forward by some Conservative MP's which included Nigel Evans the MP for Ribble Valley) to allow workers to opt out of the minimum wage - which was tantamount to abolishing it. Why did David Cameron allow any of his MP's to bring this bill forward if he is in favour of the Minimum Wage?

It was the publicity that the Unions gave to the bill that succeeded in getting it stopped - I don't remember David Cameron speaking against the bill.

Andrew, over the last 150 years, it has always been the Conservatives who have opposed legislation to improve the rights of workers. Before the minmum wage there were jobs advertised in Accrington Observer that were paying £1 an hour (for a 40 hour week). There was a public meeting in Accrington Town Hall, attended by all the parliamentary candidates, when asked about whether it was acceptable that some employers were paying £1 an hour - the only candidate who thought it was acceptable, was the Conservative candidate.

I do realise that in 1997 you were probably still at primary school and did not understand about the 'slave labour' wages people were expected to work for. However many of us, on this forum do remember the times before the minimum wage and will fight to make sure that it is not destroyed by David Cameron and his public school 'hooray henry' cronies.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by claytonender

On the subject of the minimum wage - there was a private members bill (put forward by some Conservative MP's which included Nigel Evans the MP for Ribble Valley) to allow workers to opt out of the minimum wage - which was tantamount to abolishing it. Why did David Cameron allow any of his MP's to bring this bill forward if he is in favour of the Minimum Wage?

It was the publicity that the Unions gave to the bill that succeeded in getting it stopped - I don't remember David Cameron speaking against the bill.

Andrew, over the last 150 years, it has always been the Conservatives who have opposed legislation to improve the rights of workers. Before the minmum wage there were jobs advertised in Accrington Observer that were paying £1 an hour (for a 40 hour week). There was a public meeting in Accrington Town Hall, attended by all the parliamentary candidates, when asked about whether it was acceptable that some employers were paying £1 an hour - the only candidate who thought it was acceptable, was the Conservative candidate.

I do realise that in 1997 you were probably still at primary school and did not understand about the 'slave labour' wages people were expected to work for. However many of us, on this forum do remember the times before the minimum wage and will fight to make sure that it is not destroyed by David Cameron and his public school 'hooray henry' cronies.

andrew i'm sure is well aware of these facts claytonender, but refuses to acknowledge them.

[claytonender]

Originally Posted by cashman

andrew i'm sure is well aware of these facts claytonender, but refuses to acknowledge them.

I can't think why

[cashman]

Originally Posted by claytonender

I can't think why

Me nan bless her,always used to say to me - "None so blind, as they who will not see".

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by claytonender

On the subject of the minimum wage - there was a private members bill (put forward by some Conservative MP's which included Nigel Evans the MP for Ribble Valley) to allow workers to opt out of the minimum wage - which was tantamount to abolishing it. Why did David Cameron allow any of his MP's to bring this bill forward if he is in favour of the Minimum Wage?

It was the publicity that the Unions gave to the bill that succeeded in getting it stopped - I don't remember David Cameron speaking against the bill.

Andrew, over the last 150 years, it has always been the Conservatives who have opposed legislation to improve the rights of workers. Before the minmum wage there were jobs advertised in Accrington Observer that were paying £1 an hour (for a 40 hour week). There was a public meeting in Accrington Town Hall, attended by all the parliamentary candidates, when asked about whether it was acceptable that some employers were paying £1 an hour - the only candidate who thought it was acceptable, was the Conservative candidate.

I do realise that in 1997 you were probably still at primary school and did not understand about the 'slave labour' wages people were expected to work for. However many of us, on this forum do remember the times before the minimum wage and will fight to make sure that it is not destroyed by David Cameron and his public school 'hooray henry' cronies.

It was a private members bill not Conservative Party Policy. David Cameron has no control over private members bills. You're aware of this, we've had the same discussion before. Bringing it up again now is just a rehash of the attempts to create a fake dividing line. David Cameron has confirmed that it is Conservative Party policy to keep the minimum wage.

Your final comment just displays cheap reverse snobbery.