Living off the fat of the land. - Page 14

garinda · 01-02-2009, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Expenses and allowances should be independently set. Period.

So of course you'll agree that the councillors who chose to ignore the findings of the independent review body, and award themselves a higher allowance for meals for instance, were wrong.

Good.

It's nice we agree.

garinda · 01-02-2009, 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Expenses and allowances should be independently set. Period.

There was no mention that the 20% increase awarded to the leader of the council in 2007 was recommended by an independent body.

I'm sure it would have been used as a defence at the time if it was, since it caused such an outrage.

andrewb · 01-02-2009, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

So of course you'll agree that the councillors who chose to ignore the findings of the independent review body, and award themselves a higher allowance for meals for instance, were wrong.

Good.

It's nice we agree.

Anybody who uses these expenses, not just votes for them, is in the wrong.

katex · 01-02-2009, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by shillelagh

They've agreed with nearly all of the recommendations that the review body brought up ... except for the meal allowance - the review body says £15 in lancashire and £20 elsewhere - but the council have put it up to £25 no matter where they are.

Is in the documents I put up Shill .. did notice the anomaly of the meal.
They have to have been away for more than 4 hours, and cannot claim it if eating before 7 p.m.

Hotel restaurant meals do not vary much no matter which part of the country. Particularly hotel chains.

True Burnley's allowances are much smaller than HBC and they voted to freeze the recommendations from their Remuneration Panel (sorrry, was a link through LET, but site down at mo).

Each council has its own budgets, and separate decisions as to its workings, and would you have it any other way ?

garinda · 01-02-2009, 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Anybody who uses these expenses, not just votes for them, is in the wrong.

So you are publicly condemning those who acted in defiance of the recommendations of the independent review body, and decided to award themselves more, much more.

Good.

We agree.

garinda · 01-02-2009, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

Each council has its own budgets, and separate decisions as to its workings, and would you have it any other way ?

Yes.

There is no Earthly reason why the limit of the allowances isn't the same nationwide, and I'd be interested to see evidence that shows otherwise.

garinda · 01-02-2009, 18:40

M.P.'s have the same limit on the allowances they can claim, be they from Hyndburn, Burnley, or the Ribble Valley.

I don't see why councillors should see themselves as a different case.

katex · 01-02-2009, 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Yes.

There is no Earthly reason why the limit of the allowances isn't the same nationwide, and I'd be interested to see evidence that shows otherwise.

Understand your reasoning Garinda, but which body would set them ? And who would pay towards these committees ? Would be the start of being guided by Parliament I would think ... which would not be suitable; the beginning of the end of democratic local government.

andrewb · 01-02-2009, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

So you are publicly condemning those who acted in defiance of the recommendations of the independent review body, and decided to award themselves more, much more.

Good.

We agree.

You must not forget that I am condemning anybody who USES the expenses. There is no point voting against them if you're going to take advantage of them anyway. I am sure you agree with me on this.

Gayle · 01-02-2009, 20:39

I'm sorry Andrew but are you saying that Councillors should be out of pocket? Let's not get confused here between Allowances and Expenses.

Expenses are the actual cost of the hotel or meal, you need receipts to claim expenses. If Graham voted against the increase that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be allowed to claim expenses up to the previous limit.

andrewb · 01-02-2009, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

I'm sorry Andrew but are you saying that Councillors should be out of pocket? Let's not get confused here between Allowances and Expenses.

Expenses are the actual cost of the hotel or meal, you need receipts to claim expenses. If Graham voted against the increase that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be allowed to claim expenses up to the previous limit.

No councillors should not be out of pocket for expenses, however clearly Graham does not believe that the expenses need to be increased, so why should he need to spend above the previous limit? Unless he was just voting for popularism and that the expenses increase was needed...

garinda · 02-02-2009, 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

Understand your reasoning Garinda, but which body would set them ? And who would pay towards these committees ? Would be the start of being guided by Parliament I would think ... which would not be suitable; the beginning of the end of democratic local government.

If four independent people can assess one council, then those findings should be applicable to all councils. In reality it could be done thre times say, and averaged out, and that is what each council's limit would be for allowances.

It seems like a waste of time and money to do each and every council, because all councillors will experience the same need for allowances.

It seems daft there are people going round assessing each individual council, especially if those recommendations aren't being followed anyway.

garinda · 02-02-2009, 01:17

If the councillors on Hyndburn Borough Council are going to ignore the findings of the independent body, by voting to not accept their proposed limit for meals, which allowed a London weighting, which should have kept Cllr. 'if anyone knows where you can eat for a tenner in London you should write a guide book' Britcliffe, the wisest way they could have ignored the findings of the independent body would have been to vote for their allowance to be increased by the same rate as inflation.

There wouldn't have been a story then.

garinda · 02-02-2009, 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

Understand your reasoning Garinda, but which body would set them ? And who would pay towards these committees ? Would be the start of being guided by Parliament I would think ... which would not be suitable; the beginning of the end of democratic local government.

How they act, both in standards and to some extent policy, is already guided by parliament, for example their need to reach recycling quotas etc.

The government is to bring in new legislation that would allow councillors to vote on issues without the need to be present in council chambers.

‘Pay councillors to vote from the pub’: Labour ministers push ahead with new rules despite town hall protests | Mail Online

jaysay · 02-02-2009, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

How they act, both in standards and to some extent policy, is already guided by parliament, for example their need to reach recycling quotas etc.

The government is to bring in new legislation that would allow councillors to vote on issues without the need to be present in council chambers.

‘Pay councillors to vote from the pub’: Labour ministers push ahead with new rules despite town hall protests | Mail Online

Just one comment on that, stupid, end of