Living off the fat of the land.

[katex]

Originally Posted by claytonender

As for spending extra on clothes, if you shop prudently you can find lots of bargains, my favourite place for buying clothes is Boundary Mill.

Well, you are admitting then that you would have to spend extra money on looking what you consider decent for a formal trip, be it Primark or Harvey Nichols. Clothes you would not need for everyday wear.

Anyway, you councilors go on very few overnight stays; so what is all the fuss about ?? If you do, would expect you to look professional and well-attired whilst representing the people of Hyndburn, and so would many councilors think this way, prompting them to spend the 'extra' expense out of their own pockets to do so.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by katex

Garinda: You have obviously have never been in the 'real world' of business, whereby women still struggle for a position here. Would have thought you would have had a little more empathy for this, having designed clothing for the high profile celebrities. First impressions always count.

I have had both female and male employers, and employed both female and male employees, both in the fashion world, and also in other fields. Just because I've never felt the need to share my experiences on here, doesn't mean I haven't done it. For instance for most of my career I was never employed as a 'designer'. I was mostly involved with buying, and the creative economics of running busiesses with a multi-million pound turn-over, which l increased by over 200% in three years, but that's another story. If I designed for people it was mainly for private clients, or as a favour for one of those female friends who'd laugh at the fact that they should be given differing allowances for being female rather than male.

As stated earlier most women I know personally would be both insulted and demeaned if they were given special privileges and allowances because of their gender.

The world I live in may not be the same as your 'real world' but it is one in which there is equality, backed up by laws to enforce the concept.

I fear we are going to also have to disagree on this point...again, so I'll leave it there.

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by Royboy39

I think that is the most patronising statement I have ever read on Accyweb.........A lot of the young lasses on here cant afford the bus fare to boundary mills never mind buying there.

I have 3 coats bought at Boundary Mill sales in recent years.
I watch the pennies - they were cheaper than M&S and Littlewoods catalogue despite having cashmere in the wool fabric.

[katex]

Well, whatever, Garinda .. just know I have had to spend 100's of pounds trying to look professional in business suits and decent cocktail dresses, which does not encompass the male gender.

It's not a matter of being insulted and demeaned because of their female gender .. just a fact of life that it costs more to make us look decent, and know that criticism is still aimed at us for looking less than decent .....

Think men should get a clothing allowance too though to help with their business suits ... just an unrecognisable expense of office workers, after all, men/women on the shop floor are usually provided with workwear, f.o.c.

You are lucky if provided with a uniform. Used to provide my office staff, when I worked in Manchester, with a workwear business suit Summer and Winter and boy, were they grateful of not having to pull out this extra expense.

[g jones]

First post by AndrewB, my name comes up followed by the word hypocrite. Ditto the second without a direct mention. You just can't control yourself Andrew can you?

The first point always missed is priorities. Whose pushing this forward in the first place. Labour Councillors don't bring to the agenda Members Allowances, they are always brought, in my time by The Council (Conservatives). That's whose driving the issue.

To follow that, the Conservatives are in power and stay in power. There seems no strong voice from the public to stop this at the ballot box. When it comes to hands in the air in Council, the fact is Labour Councillors do not put up expenses, Conservatives do and have a majority in Council and a mandate to do so.

If we had a Labour Council, allowances would not be going up above inflation. So it is necessary to vote against.

They have risen from about £1,800? in 2002 when I got on to about £4,100 now.

Since then 'The Council' have also voted through rises in food & hotel allowances, carers allowances and importantly removed the one extra allowance only limit.

I voted against that rise and every rise since 2002 above inflation. So have the Independents. Everyone has then accepted them after the vote has been lost to the Conservatives. Bare in mind I lose about £7,000 in lost wages at my place of work to be on the Council. In that respect the The Council (Conservatives) have a point.

Labour Councillors have never run to the press - ok Dave Parkins has - to blow this story up. As AndrewB wrongly put it (again!), shout from the roof tops and then take the allowance. There has been no shouting from the rooftop.

Where it gets 'out of hand' is the extra allowances.

The Council (Conservatives) proposed the removal of the 'one extra allowance only' limit so I now claim two.The first is Opposition Leader. £6,000. The second is Planning Committee, £750. Labour Councillors voted FOR the small allowance to be paid to Planning Committee (because it is the longest and hardest committee that meets more often and takes up the most time) under the 2nd allowances rule.

So AndrewB I am not a hypocrite on multiple allowances. You are easily fooled by MrB I can see.

It's all about who is benefiting from these changes in rules and payments.

Lets take MrB. Increased basic to £4,200. Increase Leaders extra (first) to x5 basic on top. Allowed multiple allownaces so chair of Ossy AC another £750, Chair of Area Councils, Chair of Licensing another £6,000 and that's off the top of my head.

Other Councillors (the ones in power and voting trough these rises) have Basic £4k + cabinet £6k + chair £6k +Area Council Chair £1k + Planning £750. Nice little earner with 4 extra allowances.

The Council (Conservatives) have increased vice chairs allowances to £5,000 (to pay off people) and multiplied the number of committees (with Chairs and Vice Chairs) to pay even more Councillors (Conservatives). Took Vice Chairs off Labour to pay even more Tories even more and removed the one extra allowance so all these Chairs and Vice chairs turned being a Councillor into a nice little junket FOR THEM.

It's also about who is claiming child care - the last time I looked 4 Conservatives were taking substantial sums in Child Care. I don't recall any Labour member doing so. And some of it is suspicious to say the least. And mileage. I claimed for May 2002 and have never claimed since mileage. Every drop of petrol being paid for by 'other allowances/my wage at work'.

Then there's the Rural Conference. 3 Tories every year, £3,000. A one day Conference about farming. Lovely! Great hotel too! (What part of Hyndburn is rural BTW?)

The real reason for £170 hotel allowances is the LAG Conference is once again in the lovely Harrogate. Like MrB says, very few Councillors go or stay in London (true). Nice is Harrogate, nice hotels !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not whether your a hypocrite AndrewB, that's not the issue, thats just your political spin, life is full of contradictions. Contradictions can be ok because life is complicated and often a compromise.

The real issue is, how deep have you got your nose in the trough!

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by g jones

First post by AndrewB, my name comes up followed by the word hypocrite. Ditto the second without a direct mention. You just can't control yourself Andrew can you?

The first point always missed is priorities. Whose pushing this forward in the first place. Labour Councillors don't bring to the agenda Members Allowances, they are always brought, in my time by The Council (Conservatives). That's whose driving the issue.

To follow that, the Conservatives are in power and stay in power. There seems no strong voice from the public to stop this at the ballot box. When it comes to hands in the air in Council, the fact is Labour Councillors do not put up expenses, Conservatives do and have a majority in Council and a mandate to do so.

If we had a Labour Council, allowances would not be going up above inflation. So it is necessary to vote against.

They have risen from about £1,800? in 2002 when I got on to about £4,100 now.

Since then 'The Council' have also voted through rises in food & hotel allowances, carers allowances and importantly removed the one extra allowance only limit.

I voted against that rise and every rise since 2002 above inflation. So have the Independents. Everyone has then accepted them after the vote has been lost to the Conservatives. Bare in mind I lose about £7,000 in lost wages at my place of work to be on the Council. In that respect the The Council (Conservatives) have a point.

Labour Councillors have never run to the press - ok Dave Parkins has - to blow this story up. As AndrewB wrongly put it (again!), shout from the roof tops and then take the allowance. There has been no shouting from the rooftop.

Where it gets 'out of hand' is the extra allowances.

The Council (Conservatives) proposed the removal of the 'one extra allowance only' limit so I now claim two.The first is Opposition Leader. £6,000. The second is Planning Committee, £750. Labour Councillors voted FOR the small allowance to be paid to Planning Committee (because it is the longest and hardest committee that meets more often and takes up the most time) under the 2nd allowances rule.

So AndrewB I am not a hypocrite on multiple allowances. You are easily fooled by MrB I can see.

It's all about who is benefiting from these changes in rules and payments.

Lets take MrB. Increased basic to £4,200. Increase Leaders extra (first) to x5 basic on top. Allowed multiple allownaces so chair of Ossy AC another £750, Chair of Area Councils, Chair of Licensing another £6,000 and that's off the top of my head.

Other Councillors (the ones in power and voting trough these rises) have Basic £4k + cabinet £6k + chair £6k +Area Council Chair £1k + Planning £750. Nice little earner with 4 extra allowances.

The Council (Conservatives) have increased vice chairs allowances to £5,000 (to pay off people) and multiplied the number of committees (with Chairs and Vice Chairs) to pay even more Councillors (Conservatives). Took Vice Chairs off Labour to pay even more Tories even more and removed the one extra allowance so all these Chairs and Vice chairs turned being a Councillor into a nice little junket FOR THEM.

It's also about who is claiming child care - the last time I looked 4 Conservatives were taking substantial sums in Child Care. I don't recall any Labour member doing so. And some of it is suspicious to say the least. And mileage. I claimed for May 2002 and have never claimed since mileage. Every drop of petrol being paid for by 'other allowances/my wage at work'.

Then there's the Rural Conference. 3 Tories every year, £3,000. A one day Conference about farming. Lovely! Great hotel too! (What part of Hyndburn is rural BTW?)

The real reason for £170 hotel allowances is the LAG Conference is once again in the lovely Harrogate. Like MrB says, very few Councillors go or stay in London (true). Nice is Harrogate, nice hotels !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not whether your a hypocrite AndrewB, that's not the issue, thats just your political spin, life is full of contradictions. Contradictions can be ok because life is complicated and often a compromise.

The real issue is, how deep have you got your nose in the trough!

Oh what a wicked web we weave......Spanish politics is bent also....but sometimes they get caught.

As long as Gordon Brown does not say 'The UK is mine' we will have to live with it.

[garinda]

A one day 'Rural Conference' that costs us £3,000 to send three councillors from Hyndburn?

I'll be keeping an eye out for flying pigs the next time I'm shopping in the increasingly derelict shopping experience that is Accrington.

Some of these expense hikes are treating the people who are paying for them as 'rural' dung, to put it politely.

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by garinda

A one day 'Rural Conference' that costs us £3,000 to send three councillors from Hyndburn?

I'll be keeping an eye out for flying pigs the next time I'm shopping in the increasingly derelict shopping experience that is Accrington.

Some of these expense hikes are treating the people who are paying for them as 'rural' dung, to put it politely.

I can't understand this constant blagging of your elected councillors, Peter B in particular.
You said you ran a business with a multi million pound turnover.
Publish your accounts for expenses and let everyone know what an honest man you are.
Don't forget to mention bonuses and perks.
If you feel so strongly about the politics in Accy stand for election.
I have got a heath problem which is life threatening but I can still hold my corner.
If you are are concerned with the demise in Accrington...invest in a pie shop, smack bang in the centre and display your wares.
Hollands are on the up.......Long live progress.

[bondi38]

Originally Posted by Royboy39

I think that is the most patronising statement I have ever read on Accyweb.........A lot of the young lasses on here cant afford the bus fare to boundary mills never mind buying there.

You are right i have been to boundry mill once and that was enough the prices are outragouse but its like anything else they rely on coach parties going for a day out and they will just buy something because they have gone for a special day out even if its only a cup and saucer they should come to ossy mills much better bargains there.coach parties come every day cant get parked up unless i go at 9am so all you people who want a good day out come to ossy mills .
There thats my little say for the day as no one else seems to talk about it .

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by bondi38

You are right i have been to boundry mill once and that was enough the prices are outragouse but its like anything else they rely on coach parties going for a day out and they will just buy something because they have gone for a special day out even if its only a cup and saucer they should come to ossy mills much better bargains there.coach parties come every day cant get parked up unless i go at 9am so all you people who want a good day out come to ossy mills .
There thats my little say for the day as no one else seems to talk about it .

I only ever go there at saletime - some real bargains then - but the place is packed and the best stuff goes out the door on the 1st day of the sales.
The quality is good, so when their sale prices match the normal prices in other stores, then is the time to go.

[bondi38]

Originally Posted by garinda

A one day 'Rural Conference' that costs us £3,000 to send three councillors from Hyndburn?

I'll be keeping an eye out for flying pigs the next time I'm shopping in the increasingly derelict shopping experience that is Accrington.

Some of these expense hikes are treating the people who are paying for them as 'rural' dung, to put it politely.

Gary please change the subject and talk about looking at your ducks and geese much nicer than looking at PB which i have to do almost every day living in the same vicinity as him .

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Royboy39

I can't understand this constant blagging of your elected councillors, Peter B in particular.
You said you ran a business with a multi million pound turnover.
Publish your accounts for expenses and let everyone know what an honest man you are.
Don't forget to mention bonuses and perks.
If you feel so strongly about the politics in Accy stand for election.
I have got a heath problem which is life threatening but I can still hold my corner.
If you are are concerned with the demise in Accrington...invest in a pie shop, smack bang in the centre and display your wares.
Hollands are on the up.......Long live progress.

why on earth should garinda publish accounts n expenses? i think the answer lies in the fact you doubt what he says? i happen to know different, so call me a liar as well if ya wish.

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by Royboy39

I can't understand this constant blagging of your elected councillors, Peter B in particular.
You said you ran a business with a multi million pound turnover.
Publish your accounts for expenses and let everyone know what an honest man you are.
Don't forget to mention bonuses and perks.
If you feel so strongly about the politics in Accy stand for election.
I have got a heath problem which is life threatening but I can still hold my corner.
If you are are concerned with the demise in Accrington...invest in a pie shop, smack bang in the centre and display your wares.
Hollands are on the up.......Long live progress.

Thats a bit like saying somebody who constantly critiscises the running of the country should stand for MP.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Royboy39

I can't understand this constant blagging of your elected councillors, Peter B in particular.
You said you ran a business with a multi million pound turnover.
Publish your accounts for expenses and let everyone know what an honest man you are.
Don't forget to mention bonuses and perks.
If you feel so strongly about the politics in Accy stand for election.
I have got a heath problem which is life threatening but I can still hold my corner.
If you are are concerned with the demise in Accrington...invest in a pie shop, smack bang in the centre and display your wares.
Hollands are on the up.......Long live progress.

I've no need to give evidence for what I've achieved in my life. There are enough people on here who know as fact what I've done, and would pull me up if what I said wasn't the truth. Besides, I was brought up never to knowingly lie, and that's something I'm proud of.

As for local politics I'm afraid I'd just find it too small and parochial...I prefer a larger stage, and have my sights set on more glittering and worthwhile prizes.

In the meantime I shall continue being a fly in the ointment, especially ointment that smells so bad it really should be binned.

[katex]

Originally Posted by garinda

A one day 'Rural Conference' that costs us £3,000 to send three councillors from Hyndburn?

This does appear excessive and is worth query. Wonder what was the biggest payment here for this conference? Having said this, the initial outlay is always irrelevant, have to analise the benefits at the end of the day as to what this has given the council in terms of knowledge, money saving techniques, etc., always a little difficult, but the root of all expenses paid in all areas of industry/business/public bodies, can take time to show up any beneficial results.

Originally Posted by bondi38

You are right i have been to boundry mill once and that was enough the prices are outragouse but its like anything else they rely on coach parties going for a day out and they will just buy something because they have gone for a special day out even if its only a cup and saucer they should come to ossy mills much better bargains there.coach parties come every day cant get parked up unless i go at 9am so all you people who want a good day out come to ossy mills .
There thats my little say for the day as no one else seems to talk about it .

The coach trips are usually linked up with a deal with Boundary Mill Bondi and then on to Ossie Mills .. sorta package day.

Originally Posted by lancsdave

Thats a bit like saying somebody who constantly critiscises the running of the country should stand for MP.

Agree.

At the end of the day, nobody really makes any money out of expenses in my opinion ... supposed to compensate you for more than you would outlay if you were spending the night at home. You usually finish up paying extras out of your own pocket. Just the odd one now and then that take advantage; but can always be questioned as you need receipts before reimbursement, they like that to claim back the VAT. Actually, can Councils claim back VAT ?