Local Elections on Thursday.

[shillelagh]

Originally Posted by claytonender

How about the fingers you got trapped in letterboxes. I have quite a few 'battle wounds' on my hands.

I think that there should be a law, that no letterboxes should be fitted at the bottom of doors.It certainly slows leafleting down when you have to juggle a pile of leaflets and bend down to a letterbox at the bottom of the door.

I always pity the poor postman who has to contend with awkward and undersize letterboxes every day.

Its the dogs on the otherside of them letterboxes that get me!!! Last year ended up in Accy Vic having a tetanus because a dog was at the otherside of the letterbox and when i pushed the leaflet through it bit me!

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by claytonender

How about the fingers you got trapped in letterboxes. I have quite a few 'battle wounds' on my hands.

I think that there should be a law, that no letterboxes should be fitted at the bottom of doors.It certainly slows leafleting down when you have to juggle a pile of leaflets and bend down to a letterbox at the bottom of the door.

I always pity the poor postman who has to contend with awkward and undersize letterboxes every day.

Indeed! I had blood on my hands after delivering leaflets around my ward!

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by Less

I quite agree, young man, you have a great deal going for you and your insight is remarkable for your age, except that I think it would be a great night for all those torys to go out and hang themselves, I was forced to bring a family up under your darling maggie when your lot did nothing but throw real workers onto the dole but made sure the fat cats could still make their money.

I too would vote tory if I only had my self interests at heart.

I can understand peoples views about Margaret Thatcher, and although I don't believe its really that black and white, I still respect how you feel.

However.. I really do feel that the Conservative party of today is not the same. We arnt fighting socialism anymore, we arnt fighting blackouts from strikes, we arnt facing global recession, some of which are government related some of which arnt. The point being we won the ideological battle and now live in a Liberal Democracy that dosn't need radical policy or government to fix things like strikes, blackouts, economic decline.. Therefore I honestly don't think people should still refer to 30years in the past when they're deciding who to vote for.

After all, many people who voted Labour in 1997 realized that the party was different to that of when Michael Foot was leader in 1983 when Thatcher won her landslide victory.

Personally, if I ever become a councilor or MP, my self interest would be to serve the people, making their lives better. I truly feel that this is the sole purpose of becoming a public servant.

[claytonender]

Originally Posted by Cyfr

I can understand peoples views about Margaret Thatcher, and although I don't believe its really that black and white, I still respect how you feel.

For those of us who lived through the Margaret Thatcher years, and suffered because of her policies the issues are still very black and white. In East Lancashire we are still saddled with her legacy, she set out to break the back of the industrial infrastructsure of Britian, and the low wage economy of this area is testament to her legacy.

We will never trust the Tories - the history of the party shows that they exisits to conserve the interests of the landowners, employers etc, they believe thay have a 'divine right' to keep us under control.

I am sorry but Cameron will never change the basic underlying aims of the Tory party.

I, for one, still hate the Tories and always will.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by claytonender

I, for one, still hate the Tories and always will.

Hate's astrong word, I don't hate anyone, but I know where you are coming from, and totally agree.

[Gayle]

I agree with CyFr on this to some degree. If you are going to continue judging the Conservative party on the Thatcher years then are you going to continue judging the local Labour party in Hyndburn on its failings of six years ago?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle

I agree with CyFr on this to some degree. If you are going to continue judging the Conservative party on the Thatcher years then are you going to continue judging the local Labour party in Hyndburn on its failings of six years ago?

Scratch away the shiny new logo, and all the hug a hoodie nonsense, and the hard core Tory supporters are still the same old biggots that idolised Thatcher.

[claytonender]

Originally Posted by garinda

Scratch away the shiny new logo, and all the hug a hoodie nonsense, and the hard core Tory supporters are still the same old biggots that idolised Thatcher.

I agree completely with you garinda.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Cyfr

and now live in a Liberal Democracy

Cyfr, even for a tory that makes no sense, if we live in a liberal society then you should be voting, erm' liberal?

But 30 years ago is still fresh in my mind when I think of the problems one stubborn woman caused for masses of people, she closed steel works and mines that could have still been producing economically for several generations to come. I suppose you could say that some of these workers were compensated by their redundancies, but the torys knew that really that was only a loan that would be paid back because ordinary folk hadn't the resources to use such a windfall without somebody ripping them off, especially when the value of the houses they lived in, in the now defunct mining villages tumbled and drained their resources.

It's the fact that some of us remember 30 years ago that makes me hope we never see the same again.

Nowhere near as bad as the 1930's with starvation, but you try telling a young child that christmas isn't coming because his nice Uncle the Policeman is on overtime but his dad the miner has been arrested because he tried to keep his job!

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by garinda

Scratch away the shiny new logo, and all the hug a hoodie nonsense, and the hard core Tory supporters are still the same old biggots that idolised Thatcher.

Don't get me wrong here, I still would never vote for Conservatives but that is because I don't agree with their views and I don't trust Cameron. However, to not vote for them simply because you don't like Thatcher is not a valid enough reason.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Don't get me wrong here, I still would never vote for Conservatives but that is because I don't agree with their views and I don't trust Cameron. However, to not vote for them simply because you don't like Thatcher is not a valid enough reason.

It's not dislike for the women, it's what she stood for, and the fact that the vast majority of Tories still support what she did, especially to the north.

Can a leopard change it's spots?

Maybe, New Labour did.

We can't really judge Casmeron because he hasn't any policies, just stupid, cringe making sound bites.

[claytonender]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Don't get me wrong here, I still would never vote for Conservatives but that is because I don't agree with their views and I don't trust Cameron. However, to not vote for them simply because you don't like Thatcher is not a valid enough reason.

Gayle, it isn't just a question of not voting for them because people didn't like Thatcher. If you look at the history of working men and women througout the 20th century (and earlier centuries), it has always been the Tories who tried to keep them oppressed. So it really is a no brainer never to trust a Tory.
In May 1955 - I was 9 years old and there was a General Election - Harold Macmillan was saying ' You have never had it so Good'. Because I was a curious child I asked my father what the difference was between the Labour Party and the Conservatives, he told me about the 20's and 30's, and said that the Conservatives only looked after people with money. I have never forgotten this and as I have grown older nothing I have seen has ever given me cause to doubt these words.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by Less

Cyfr, even for a tory that makes no sense, if we live in a liberal society then you should be voting, erm' liberal?

But 30 years ago is still fresh in my mind when I think of the problems one stubborn woman caused for masses of people, she closed steel works and mines that could have still been producing economically for several generations to come. I suppose you could say that some of these workers were compensated by their redundancies, but the torys knew that really that was only a loan that would be paid back because ordinary folk hadn't the resources to use such a windfall without somebody ripping them off, especially when the value of the houses they lived in, in the now defunct mining villages tumbled and drained their resources.

It's the fact that some of us remember 30 years ago that makes me hope we never see the same again.

Nowhere near as bad as the 1930's with starvation, but you try telling a young child that christmas isn't coming because his nice Uncle the Policeman is on overtime but his dad the miner has been arrested because he tried to keep his job!

Well as I understand it the mines were not economically viable as its much cheaper to import as its so expensive to extract it here, and miners were going on strike against their will! The workers wanted to get back to work but Unions had too much control. You have to agree that coming down on union power was a good thing for the country, surely? As unions are unelected yet had a enormous amount of power until Thatcher stood up to them.

However lets try not to get in to a debate on all her time in government as we've done it over and over on this forum.

I call it a Liberal Democracy because thats what most western nations are. It's basically a country with free market and that protects peoples individual rights such as equality, universal suffrage.

It has the term liberal in it which can seem confusing, however many of the parties share different bits of ideology, its not cut and dry. Currently all the major parties support free market economy which is essentially Classical Liberalism. For example Thatcher was a Neo-Liberal, she believed in both parts of Classical Liberalism and Conservatism.

I could write for days about this of course as you could argue that we have seen an end of ideologies since the defeat of socialism and when Thatcher left office.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Cyfr

surly

There's no need to call Less names.

He was angry I think, that Thatcher took food out of his children's mouths, but never surly.

[Gayle]

I have no objection with people not voting for the Conservatives because of what they stand for now (or don't stand for in Cameron's case because he doesn't really seem to stand for anything). What I am always concerned about though is the 'I hate them and will always hate them' approach.