Local vs County - Page 2

Neil · 25-03-2006, 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

If you become leader will you still post here often?

It might be some time before she becomes the Labour leader

. She is running for ward Councillor not leader. Peter is the current leader of HBC, if she wins the election it wont make Gayle the leader.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGreene

However with HBC approximately one third of the Councillors are elected each year so as far as the electorate is concerned they only have one vote to elect one Councillor

Are you hoping to be one of the elected Councillors this time round Bill?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

I'm not suggesting proportional voting at all.

I am quite keen on the idea of 1 party running the whole show, both at local and national level. At least it might stop local Tory Councils trying to blame the Labour Government for its own mistake and vise versa of course

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

Of course, I am slightly biased..

Just a tad

Gayle · 25-03-2006, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

I am quite keen on the idea of 1 party running the whole show, both at local and national level. At least it might stop local Tory Councils trying to blame the Labour Government for its own mistake and vise versa of course

That's an interesting idea but unless you're suggesting that the Councils are tied in to the national elections in some way I'm not sure how it could work. I agree that there is too much 'blame' between national, county and local and it's an easy thing for any one of them to say 'not my fault guv, blame the others' for things.

I'm going to say something daftish here but the one thing that I really don't like about politics is the 'politics' - by that I mean the 'blaming the other party' culture and the internal politics of voting once elected i.e. everyone voting down party lines. I believe (and this is very idealistic) that when you get voted on to the Council you should then be part of the bigger 'Team Hyndburn' and should all work together for the good of the area. I'm not the only one who thinks like that as there are some excellent Labour and Tory Councillors who currently work as a team and clearly I would be happy to work with them for the good of the area. Whilst I agree that structure is needed I think 'Team Hyndburn' should come first.

If every politician thought that way then it would negate the need for your idea as everyone would be working for the greater good and there would be less 'blame' and in fighting.

I think we're both a bit too idealistic on this though Neil as we have a system and it's unlikely to change so I think we just have to live with it.

Neil · 25-03-2006, 10:01

You do get MP's voting against their own party at national level so I assume you do at local level.

Gayle · 25-03-2006, 10:04

I hope so for the sake of common sense.

There is such thing as a whip and there are ocassions where Councillors are instructed by the whip as to which way they should vote. The situation there is that you can either vote against (and be in a whole heap of trouble with your party), vote for or abstain. As I'm not a Councillor (yet) I don't know how this works in practice.

Neil · 25-03-2006, 10:35

I think the votes should be secret. None of this shouting rubbish. The whole system we use to vote PM's etc. into power relies on secret ballot so you can't be pressured. Then you get to Parliament and your MP does what he is told by his Party. There is something fundamentally wrong with that.

Gayle · 25-03-2006, 10:59

Well, whilst secret ballots are useful in some ways they are open to fraud - no one can dispute a show of hands.

Neil · 25-03-2006, 11:05

Not if done correctly, this is the 21st century

SPUGGIE J · 25-03-2006, 11:22

Try telling polititions that. Some think its still the C19 and they can do as they please.

g jones · 26-03-2006, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

I hope so for the sake of common sense.

There is such thing as a whip and there are ocassions where Councillors are instructed by the whip as to which way they should vote. The situation there is that you can either vote against (and be in a whole heap of trouble with your party), vote for or abstain. As I'm not a Councillor (yet) I don't know how this works in practice.

The whip system is just a formal arrangement (an alliance) to prevent chaos. Hyndburn has 18 Cons and 17 Labour councillors. If the Conservatives did a lot of work on something but their members could vote willy nilly at the end then potentially they could have wasted a lot of time. Particularly if Labour is opposed to an idea from the start. In Hyndburns case one maverick Tory means a lot of work gone to waste.

There is a lot of merit in a proportional voting system. It would do away with the whip system and would also give power to fringe parties such as the greens and liberal democrats (only joking Bill!!!) and perhaps make for more radical government by consensus. There are of course downsides as well.

Madhatter · 27-03-2006, 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

You do get MP's voting against their own party at national level so I assume you do at local level.

Very rarely at local level unfortunately.

Madhatter · 27-03-2006, 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

That's an interesting idea but unless you're suggesting that the Councils are tied in to the national elections in some way I'm not sure how it could work. I agree that there is too much 'blame' between national, county and local and it's an easy thing for any one of them to say 'not my fault guv, blame the others' for things.

I'm going to say something daftish here but the one thing that I really don't like about politics is the 'politics' - by that I mean the 'blaming the other party' culture and the internal politics of voting once elected i.e. everyone voting down party lines. I believe (and this is very idealistic) that when you get voted on to the Council you should then be part of the bigger 'Team Hyndburn' and should all work together for the good of the area. I'm not the only one who thinks like that as there are some excellent Labour and Tory Councillors who currently work as a team and clearly I would be happy to work with them for the good of the area. Whilst I agree that structure is needed I think 'Team Hyndburn' should come first.

If every politician thought that way then it would negate the need for your idea as everyone would be working for the greater good and there would be less 'blame' and in fighting.

I think we're both a bit too idealistic on this though Neil as we have a system and it's unlikely to change so I think we just have to live with it.

A lot of councillors start out with this idealistic way of thinking gayle but when they actually get voted in they fall in to line in the party. Even independant non politicals do it. They fall in to line with who ever they get on with the most. Very rare is it that someone gives their own opinion regardless of the rest of the councils. For one thing it would, I imagine, make them very unpopular, like I am now with most of the councillors, yet when I first got involved they were all all over me, wanting me to fall in with their line of thinking. Now they realise I have my own line of thinking based on what i think the people will want they don't like me much.
I may just put myself up again at next elections, and actually bother to canvas this time, as I'm always being asked by people to stand.

BillGreene · 27-03-2006, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

Are you hoping to be one of the elected Councillors this time round Bill?

Yes - Nomination papers just about to go in!
________________________________________________-

To all those who read this - Why don't you stand for election. All you need is four things
Live or work in Hyndburn, for the past year
Ten people willing to sign a piece of paper (this is a lot easier than it sounds).
A liking for people
A wish to serve.
Thats all it takes. You do not have to belong to a party.
If you want to know more send me a Private Message