Lockerbie bomber to be set free .. - Page 5

Wynonie Harris · 22-08-2009, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

think we are seeing some damage control and reptilian politicians both sides of the Atlantic trying to cover their asses

Was it ever thus, SJ? Turns out that the fragrant Mandy (that bloke who now seems to have a major say in government policy, even though he has not received a mandate to do this from a single member of the UK electorate) was having a little chat with Gaddafi's son a few weeks ago...I wonder what about? Meanwhile, mad Gord has gone to ground, as he always does at times like this (vote on the Iraq war, signing of the EU Constitution etc). And of course, the boy David is milking the situation with all the righteous indignation he can muster. Politicians...wouldn't give tu'pence for the lot of 'em!

jaysay · 22-08-2009, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Was it ever thus, SJ? Turns out that the fragrant Mandy (that bloke who now seems to have a major say in government policy, even though he has not received a mandate to do this from a single member of the UK electorate) was having a little chat with Gaddafi's son a few weeks ago...I wonder what about? Meanwhile, mad Gord has gone to ground, as he always does at times like this (vote on the Iraq war, signing of the EU Constitution etc). And of course, the boy David is milking the situation with all the righteous indignation he can muster. Politicians...wouldn't give tu'pence for the lot of 'em!

And there's me think you were a mate Wynonie

Wynonie Harris · 22-08-2009, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

And there's me think you were a mate Wynonie

...I am and I'll say this for you, Jaysay, at least you're willing to support the party you're a member of. Funny how the card-carrying Labour party members always go very quiet on topics like this...and all those other difficult little questions like EU membership...and law and order...and...

Mancie · 23-08-2009, 00:40

Not a very good attempt to lay this release down to Labour.. It's a decision made by the Parliment of Scotland..no cover up.. no excuse.

shillelagh · 23-08-2009, 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

...I am and I'll say this for you, Jaysay, at least you're willing to support the party you're a member of. Funny how the card-carrying Labour party members always go very quiet on topics like this...and all those other difficult little questions like EU membership...and law and order...and...

Im a member of the labour party .. and ive stayed quiet mainly because i dont know what to think .. first english/scottish people arent paying to keep him in prison now .. so no expense to the taxpayers, hes also got cancer and is dying .. so if we can let ronnie biggs go why not let him go .. also are you sure he is the one who did it ..as the father of one of the people who died says hes glad hes been freed as he says that he had nothing to do with it ... but he was found guilty back in 2001 so there must have been some evidence of him involved.

What i would have done if i was going to release him tho would have got him on a plane, waited till he was 3/4's of the way to libya and then made the press release. That way then the media wouldnt have been able to make a big deal of it like what they have done. Also as it is the scottish executive .. and not jack straw that has made the decision .. leave the labour party out of it .. cos the scottish executive is run by the SNP not the labour party ..

What i also dont agree with is all the media attention thats been brought about through this. Col Gaddaffi .. thanking the queen, prince andrew and gordon brown for bringing this about, yeah as if the queen gets involved in something like this never mind prince andrew .. if a golf course is involved maybe .. but not letting someone go free ..

steeljack · 23-08-2009, 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by shillelagh

.. also are you sure he is the one who did it ..as the father of one of the people who died says hes glad hes been freed as he says that he had nothing to do with it ... but he was found guilty back in 2001 so there must have been some evidence of him involved.

..

One thing to consider during all this 'hoopla' about the Scottish legal system ......and Al Maghribi's guilt , someone correct me if I'm wrong but is there not something in Scottish Law called "Not Prooved" whereby someone can stand trial and be aquitted but later recalled if further evidence comes to light , if the original evidence was suspicious why was this 'not prooved ' not verdict given .

Mancie · 23-08-2009, 06:04

the case was not held in Scotland..it was at the Hague.. it's hard work trying to sort the in's and out's of any laws in any country...but it's simple.. the leaders of Scotland decided to free a man found guilty for the murder of 270 people on "compasionate grounds"..not on any new evidence or even the original guilty verdict being opposed.

steeljack · 23-08-2009, 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

the case was not held in Scotland..it was at the Hague.. it's hard work trying to sort the in's and out's of any laws in any country...but it's simple.. the leaders of Scotland decided to free a man found guilty for the murder of 270 people on "compasionate grounds"..not on any new evidence or even the original guilty verdict being opposed.

a couple of links for you , yep the trial was held in the Hague, but under Scottish Law Pan Am Flight 103 bombing trial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

also Scottish Law provides for 3 verdicts , scroll down to not proven verdict
Scotland Guide - General information - Legal questions

please provide links where the word " compasion for convicted mass murderer" is codified in any countrys legal code

Mancie · 23-08-2009, 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

please provide links where the word " compasion for convicted mass murderer" is codified in any countrys legal code

I don't know of any Steeljack..and I can't think of anyone convicted of murder released on compasionate grounds.

Bernard Dawson · 23-08-2009, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

...I am and I'll say this for you, Jaysay, at least you're willing to support the party you're a member of. Funny how the card-carrying Labour party members always go very quiet on topics like this...and all those other difficult little questions like EU membership...and law and order...and...

It's not a question of Labour Party members being quiet on issues such as this. I just happen to think that as a local Councillor our focus should be on what's happening in Hyndburn. Or what's not happening.

jaysay · 23-08-2009, 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

It's not a question of Labour Party members being quiet on issues such as this. I just happen to think that as a local Councillor our focus should be on what's happening in Hyndburn. Or what's not happening.

You didn't say that when there was a tory government, in fact you never mentioned local issues for years and that is a fact, and you know it

Tealeaf · 23-08-2009, 11:24

Just heard a newsflash.......Abdelbaset al Megrahi, in recognition of the favours given to him by the people of Scotland and the Scotsman Mr Gordon Brown, is now to change is name to Hamish MacGrahey.

Wynonie Harris · 23-08-2009, 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by shillelagh

Im a member of the labour party .. and ive stayed quiet mainly because i dont know what to think .. first english/scottish people arent paying to keep him in prison now .. so no expense to the taxpayers, hes also got cancer and is dying .. so if we can let ronnie biggs go why not let him go .. also are you sure he is the one who did it ..as the father of one of the people who died says hes glad hes been freed as he says that he had nothing to do with it ... but he was found guilty back in 2001 so there must have been some evidence of him involved.

What i would have done if i was going to release him tho would have got him on a plane, waited till he was 3/4's of the way to libya and then made the press release. That way then the media wouldnt have been able to make a big deal of it like what they have done. Also as it is the scottish executive .. and not jack straw that has made the decision .. leave the labour party out of it .. cos the scottish executive is run by the SNP not the labour party ..

The Ronnie Biggs case hardly bears comparison. Biggs and his accomplices robbed a mail train and attacked a driver during the raid. The driver was never the same again and subsequently died. Biggs himself didn't attack the driver, but obviously he bears some responsibility as he was part of the gang. A despicable act that had tragic consequences for an innocent man, but hardly the same as murdering 270 people. I read somewhere that Al Megrahi has served 11 days for each of the victims. And yes, Al Megrahi's conviction raised a lot of questions. In fact, he was appealing against it, but after a cosy little chat with Macaskill, he dropped his appeal, so now we'll never know.

As for your party having nothing to do with it, well, maybe, but Mandy has certainly been keeping company with Gadafi's son...funny, that...and Gadafi junior reckons that the subject of Al Megrahi was raised...but of course, why should we take the word of some damn foreigner against a fine, upstanding fellow like Mandy? Funny how Gord was in very close talks with the Colonel just a few weeks ago at the G8 summit and, of course, the spinmeister himself, T.Blair, rushed through the Prisoner Transfer Agrrement after a tet a tet with Gadaffi.

One thing I will say though, Shilleagh. If the boy David and his bunch of chinless wonders were in power, I'm sure a very similar scenario would currently being played out with Jaysay and AndrewB posting on here that "The Conservatives have nothing to do with it."

The fact is that there are billions of pounds worth of oil and gas reserves beneath the sands of Libya and that will always take precedence over concepts like justice and humanity. That's realpolitik for you!

andrewb · 23-08-2009, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

The fact is that there are billions of pounds worth of oil and gas reserves beneath the sands of Libya and that will always take precedence over concepts like justice and humanity. That's realpolitik for you!

Another reason for nuclear. Roll on nuclear power!

Wynonie Harris · 23-08-2009, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

It's not a question of Labour Party members being quiet on issues such as this. I just happen to think that as a local Councillor our focus should be on what's happening in Hyndburn. Or what's not happening.

Ah I see, so that's why!

...but hang on a minute, weren't you commenting on the Tories' attitude to the NHS just a few days ago?...and on the national unemployment figures a few days before that?...and on Nigel Evans MP and the expenses scandal a few days before that? Still, I suppose those posts were made in those all-too-brief moments of calm in the busy life of a Hyndburn councillor.

Incidentally, Bernard, the most important thing that's not happening in the borough at the moment, as you know only too well, is the Stanley strikeforce finding the back of the net, but I suppose that may be beyond your remit!