Man beaten whilst protecting property-dies. - Page 3

KIPAX · 14-08-2007, 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by davo69

well in my experience of life would beg to differ i dont no any kids that have gone so far off the rails when good parenting as been used the only members of my family that have gone of the rails is to of my cousins and that was there mum not giving a dam what they were upto blaming it on being a single parent .what a poor excuse give them love and guidence and morals and they will no right from rong

So you don't think there are strong outside influences like best friends.. school friends.. bullies, teachers and all manner of people that have a direct influence on your child.. of course parents are the strongest but outside influences play a big part as indeed they should in life...

How many kids have you got davo69 and are they anywhere near teenagers yet?

davo69 · 14-08-2007, 09:59

son 18 daughter 15 yes there are influence from many arears but noing right from wrong is something different being able to talk to your perants is a big thing my son when he was 12 came home and told me he hade tried smoking for the first time and he had burnt a hole in is shirt he new i would not be happy because me and my wife have never smoked but he new he could talk to me and wasnt scared to tell me he had done something he wasnt happy with

KIPAX · 14-08-2007, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by davo69

son 18 daughter 15 yes there are influence from many arears but noing right from wrong is something different

So 15 yr old knows right from wrong.. knows the correct values in life and has been brought up well..

same 15 yr old out with best mate who says lets do this that and the other.. or theres 15 of them and they all want to do somehting not quite right but not too wrong... what 15 yr old is going to be the one that says.. not me I am going home... Give over... ... the biggest influence will be first love (esp as teenager). and you can bet yer bottom dollar that will be more important than either parent.... unfortunatly...

me? 7 kids aged 11-31, 5 sons and 2 daughters..

accymel · 14-08-2007, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by panther

since these kids are not old enough to go to a proper prison, then the parents should be punished, they the ones who have brought these kids up, they are the ones who have taught these thugs from right and wrong, so these so called parents should be made to pay the price!!
as someone said on here, its what we would get off our parents that made us behave, corporal punishment should be brought back and borstal reopened!!

then lets see how 'hard' these kids feel!

Funny this discussion came up yesterday & my 2 who was huffing & puffing at their punishment of no spending money, we compared ours with theirs, lets say shock was one of the looks as we knew the meaning of not sitting down proper for a week!

Did it make us any better for it ? no probably fear of a good hiding after experiencing it was the only hold over behaviour, to either put up & shut up or do a runner, same principle held in domestic violent relationships too! Nowadays counts as child abuse them days discipline!! Many of us that had that discipline at the time vowed never to do that to their children & look for better ways, to which the next generation parenting changed.

As a parent myself with a difficult child, its very hard, i do discipline my children with sanctions & correctional discussions, im very aware of my job as a parent to make sure i bring up decent human beings, but i battle hard with it, i've had many breaking points where i feel im failing as a parent because as much as i try - it doesnt get through despite my best efforts & sometimes u feel to give em a good hiding but i know that wont solve the problem only maybe to exasberate it further, so not an option, only creates more distance, aggression & hatred kind of counter productive & negative. You want your kids to able to confide, talk & not be scared to come to you if theres a problem or advice, so in the event of something bad happening or about to happen you still can help to prevent that. I dont beleive that sparing the rod spoils the child, cos that child grows up & may return that rod to you or to others. There are many ways of disciplining that are more productive - BUT it means a lot of effort, patience & consistancy & THATS what fails for many parents is that they are after quick fixes or instants to save time & effort because they have beter things to do than with their children.

Parents are accountable for their kids, but as with owt else its the ones that are trying & getting nowhere or want help that cop for it more than those who simply cant be arsed - & thats where the problem is.

whistler · 14-08-2007, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by magpie

A slap when they are young enough is a good deterrent....make them think twice ( like we did when we were kids) well anyone over 35 that is

You can't even give them a slap these days or you are labelled a child abuser.

davo69 · 14-08-2007, 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by KIPAX

So 15 yr old knows right from wrong.. knows the correct values in life and has been brought up well..

same 15 yr old out with best mate who says lets do this that and the other.. or theres 15 of them and they all want to do somehting not quite right but not too wrong... what 15 yr old is going to be the one that says.. not me I am going home... Give over... ... the biggest influence will be first love (esp as teenager). and you can bet yer bottom dollar that will be more important than either parent.... unfortunatly...

me? 7 kids aged 11-31, 5 sons and 2 daughters..

i would expect any fifteen year old to no right from wrong so one says lets kick this guys head in and they all would follow think not of my kids anyway they would walk away and get help for the poor sod

KIPAX · 14-08-2007, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by davo69

i would expect any fifteen year old to no right from wrong so one says lets kick this guys head in and they all would follow think not of my kids anyway they would walk away and get help for the poor sod

If you want to discuss the outside influences on children and the fact that they will do wrong and it's not all down to parents then go ahead.. if you want to twist words and make it look like i think all kids will do really nasty stuff then I am not interested in continuing what I htought was a healthy mature debate ..

slinky · 14-08-2007, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancsdave

Society has a habit of given publicity/recognition to those who do wrong, very little praise is given to those who do right.

That is very very true!!

Last week my kids were playing out in the garden when a community warden came talking to them.

My kids asked about the " free tickets for bowling and cinema " they were dishing out round the neighborhood. The warden said " well usually we give them to the bad boys and girls to get them off the streets during the school holidays, but I will see what I can do about getting you 2 boys some " and took their names and addresses.

Now I'm sorry, but who are the winners here?? My kids have never been in the slightest bit in trouble with the police!! (( and hopefully would never dare )) so they don't get any treats for being good, but then they hear off the wardens that only ' NAUGHTY BOYS AND GIRLS ' get them usually.

What kind of a lesson is that??

I do feel sorry for the kids that are good, never get into trouble with the police and never anti social around the neighborhoods.........where's is their recognition for this??

accymel · 14-08-2007, 12:48

Very true slinky indeed, same applies with schools whom dish out awards for attending school et those that do attend without complaint dont get the same praise - its just expected

They have a go at parents but media & society repeatedley give bad kids the rewards, no wonder there is so many bad uns about if they are going to be rewarded for it - personally good behaviour should be rewarded & bad behaviour sanctioned & made uncool.

Sounds like sweep the bad ones under he carpet pay em off the streets - rediculously counter productive

LancYorkYankee · 14-08-2007, 13:27

I've just come into this thread. Very interesting debate with much value seen in all the responses (IMO). I spanked my kids on ocassion when they were smaller. This for me was so much "softer" approach then the beatings we'd get for merely looking at mom or dad in the wrong way (and all kinds of other "bad" stuff). Heck, somedays it felt my pants were down with my legs being whipped more then they were up.

I swore I'd not lash out in anger like that with my kids. Hence, the spankings were after the "new stuff" didn't work. Okay, nuff said! Now to back to the thread:

They are animals, they are just scum really

The man quoted certainly summed them up eh? My question (and PLEASE, I do understand the fear factor), with all this going on, where were this guys neighbors. Imagine all or at least most of them coming out with bats, clubs, canes, frying pans, pointed sticks, etc.. and going after these hoodlums? Just the thought of that may have been a deterrent?

Trust me, I probably wouldn't go off on my own and jump into this fray. However, I would have taken out a gun and shot it in the air a few times. That'd see the kids scatter whilst peeing in their pants. I know, not an option for you.

Heck, can't you, in each neighborhood, place signs that state something like: "This People and Property of this Neighborhood is, and will be protected by said persons!" Then when the creeps gather on the sidewalks, the neighborhood, in mass, can tell them to bug off!

I don't know. I'm just SO wriled up for you. I HATE seeing this stuff going on. I hurt and fear for my Accyweb family having to live with this stuff happening around you. That includes the lack of consequences for these groups who perpetrate the fear, damage, and death that's going on.

Be Strong!

Brian

cashman · 14-08-2007, 15:35

in instances like this, i wonder

maybe the yanks have got it right? a couple of shots over the scums heads,i would not object to.

garinda · 14-08-2007, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by panther

since these kids are not old enough to go to a proper prison, then the parents should be punished

I agree. If society thinks the little angels are too young for a custodial sentence, bang their parents up for their crimes.

I bet we'd see a marked improvement in parenting skills, and there wouldn't be as many wandering the streets at night.

Lampman · 14-08-2007, 17:33

I have just read the letter to the MURDER victim from his 12 year old daughter,quite heartbreaking.He had also fought cancer,not a quitter or one to hide away,its true the good die young!
As I have said before we have a society that promotes violence on the person.
What will be the future, more police on the street or vigilanty groups?

BERNADETTE · 14-08-2007, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lampman

I have just read the letter to the MURDER victim from his 12 year old daughter,quite heartbreaking.He had also fought cancer,not a quitter or one to hide away,its true the good die young!
As I have said before we have a society that promotes violence on the person.
What will be the future, more police on the street or vigilanty groups?

I jhave also read that letter, how must his family be feeling? To fight cancer and then be taken from them in such a senseless way, they must be devastated. It makes me so angry!

SPUGGIE J · 14-08-2007, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

I agree. If society thinks the little angels are too young for a custodial sentence, bang their parents up for their crimes.

I bet we'd see a marked improvement in parenting skills, and there wouldn't be as many wandering the streets at night.

Then who would look after the little angels the state. There are pro's and con's both ways so it is a hard choice.