Man shot dead enforcing smoking ban - Page 2

shakermaker · 27-07-2007, 19:14

It was an INDIRECT result of the smoking ban.
If it was direct, why hasn't there been thousands of other incidents like this?
Or were these the only three people in Britain to take umbridge when asked to put out a cigarette?
My educated guess is NO.
There have been thousands that have been a little peeved when asked to put out a fag, hell I've seen a few already, only they weren't shotgun wielding lunatics were they?
Newsflash - the shotgun wielding loony part is another step between the the landlord acting and the culprit shooting.
Therefore making the shooting an INDIRECT result of the smoking ban.

& it doesn't take a fly on the wall to work that one out.

Eric · 27-07-2007, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker

You're making a complete inductive leap from the smoking ban to the landlord being shot.
You're carefully leaving out very important information about the killers' state of mind & they're current posession of firearms.
Ah but no, no other factor could've possibly made the culprits commit the crime, it must've been the smoking ban right? Wrong.

It really doesn't seem all that complicated ... seems quite a simple cause and effect thing .... not in the sense that all would react by shooting, but this is a particular case, and hopefully an isolated one. Their state of mind: homicidal. Their possession of firearms: obviously they were packing. I don't think anything or anyone "made" them do it, but the lack of coercion does not really enter into it. I can't see how anyone can deny the link between the ban and the act.

cashman · 27-07-2007, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

It really doesn't seem all that complicated ... seems quite a simple cause and effect thing .... not in the sense that all would react by shooting, but this is a particular case, and hopefully an isolated one. Their state of mind: homicidal. Their possession of firearms: obviously they were packing. I don't think anything or anyone "made" them do it, but the lack of coercion does not really enter into it. I can't see how anyone can deny the link between the ban and the act.

gotta agree with that its so obvious.

carpon · 28-07-2007, 01:08

[quote=Mancie;453955]It's been less than a month since the smoking ban came in someone has been killed as a direct result.

Extremely sad news that this guy has died as a result of the original incident. Unfortunately the gun and knife culture adopted by the mindless dregs of society is NEVER going to change until the powers that be (i.e The GOVERNMENT/LAW)start acting tough themselves.
As a footnote, I was shot at by some young kids in the park whilst walking my dog earlier this week who had an air rifle. ( I thought that you had to have a license to posess one) They hit me but caused no injury other than to totally infuriate me.
If parents today are allowing kids of 8 Or 9 (which these little gits were) to buy/own/posess one of these air rifles then what chance has society got of ridding itself of the problem.

jambutty · 28-07-2007, 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

I can't see how anyone can deny the link between the ban and the act.

I can. It’s a stubborn refusal to accept the reality of the situation and living in his own little fairy tale world.

If this is what a modern university education delivers then heaven help us all.

On the other hand it could be a case of being argumentative for the sake of it.

Best to leave him wallowing in his ignorance because no amount of pointing out the reality will make him change his mind. He is right and we are all wrong.

As far as I’m concerned I’m out of this discussion. I have better things to do, like watching the grass grow in my garden.

No doubt, he will want the last word to insist he is right, so go for it shakermaker and establish your credentials.

shakermaker · 28-07-2007, 03:18

Jambutty, you are suggesting that the smoking ban ALONE has made the culprit kill a man.

You are a bona fide idiot.

Now people, await Jambutty's geriatric gloat because he has said that I cannot possibly have further comment on the matter:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jambutty

No doubt, he will want the last word to insist he is right, so go for it shakermaker and establish your credentials

He knows he is wrong, and therefore does not wish for me to have any further participation in this thread, using his 'oh go on have the last word' peevish mentality to win his argument.

AccyMad · 28-07-2007, 12:31

So some of you reckon these idiots took a gun out with them that night just in case anyone asked them not to smoke?? The fact that they had guns means that they intended to use them at some point, this poor bloke just gave them the excuse to do so.

AccyJay · 28-07-2007, 12:46

The point is that if the smoking ban had not been in place then he would have had no reason to approach these thugs. Fair enough they were carrying weapons with the obvious intention of using them at some point.

AccyMad · 28-07-2007, 12:57

If they hadn't used the smoking ban as a 'reason', they would have found some other excuse to shoot someone, ok it might not have been this bloke but it's a safe bet that someone that night would have ended up on the wrong end of their gun.

AccyJay · 28-07-2007, 13:03

I'm not disputing the fact that they might have shot somebody else for another reason. The fact is that somebody asked them not to smoke & ended up being shot for trying to enforce the new Government legislation.

cashman · 28-07-2007, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by AccyMad

If they hadn't used the smoking ban as a 'reason', they would have found some other excuse to shoot someone, ok it might not have been this bloke but it's a safe bet that someone that night would have ended up on the wrong end of their gun.

no-ones disputing that, its not even a "might" its a probably. but the FACT of the matter is they shot this poor sod for attempting to enforce the ban, thats with the info we have available.

Neil · 28-07-2007, 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by carpon

I was shot at by some young kids in the park whilst walking my dog earlier this week who had an air rifle. ( I thought that you had to have a license to posess one)

I am glad you were not seriously hurt. No you don't need a license to own one (unless it is over certain power levels). Out of interest which park was it? I heard of a similar incident recently somewhere in Hyndburn.