Margaret Thatcher

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Sue, where have I said that?
She polarised opinion in her lifetime so it isn't strange that it continues on her demise...but does that make it right?

Nowhere in so many words, but the tone of your posts suggests that is what you would like to see in this thread. I guess someone could always start another post for the I Hate Thatcher posts.

[Boeing Guy]

To win 3 elections and transform the political landscape like she did was a magnificent achievement for her and her party.

Imho she was without doubt the greatest peacetime PM of the 20th century. Love her or hate her she had the thing that is sadly missing in most politicians - real conviction and the balls to make those convictions turn into reality.

Shame about the son though.

That said....can we bury Gordon Brown at the same time, I have personal reasons to hate the man.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by susie123

I guess someone could always start another post for the I Hate Thatcher posts.

I thought this was one! What a sad outpouring of venom and bile.

This was the woman who persuaded Regan to talk to Gorbachev about ending MAD. She persuaded Gorbachev to talk to Regan about ending MAD. It worked. Lucky for us that's how much they respected her.
She did with the Falklands something no PM or opposition leader since would have had the guts to do.
She had the guts to tell the Union barons they didn't and wouldn't run the UK- Parliament would. When Scargill took her on she couldn't afford to lose, if she had we might as well dismissed Parliament forever. The price the miners paid was horrific and she went too far in changeing our energy policy after Scargill was beaten- that bordered on the vindictive.
When she got it right she was very right. When she got it wrong she could be very wrong. But she tried and she had conviction- she was bold, a leader of the calibre we haven't seen since.And we could certainly do with a bold leader with conviction now.
When she said something you knew she meant it and believed it, even if you violently disagreed with it. Can you say that of any of our politicians now?
Towards the end the power went to her head- power corrupts eventually. But she and her party were put in power for 11 years by the UK voters, 3 elections, so she was more popular in her time than you would think from reading some of the outpourings on this thread.
I didn't always agree with her but I sure as hell respected her as a person of commitment, drive and conviction. Rare qualities in politics these days.
A Leader- a dead one now. No need for the extremes of opinion being aired on here.

[cashman]

Why would yeh not expect extremes of opinion on even yer own description on the woman.? Its a public forum, or are you in charge of opinions now Gordon?

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

This was the woman who persuaded Regan to talk to Gorbachev about ending MAD. She persuaded Gorbachev to talk to Regan about ending MAD. It worked.

I wondered why I could never find it in the newsagents these days! Bring back Alfred E. Neuman!

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by cashman

Why would yeh not expect extremes of opinion on even yer own description on the woman.? Its a public forum, or are you in charge of opinions now Gordon?

'I hope the evil cow went out in as much pain as possible'.
'Mass Murderer'.
'Tip her down a mine shaft'.
'She was evil'.
'Putting a stake through her heart if she has one'.

These aren't opinions, cashman!
We're not talking about Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot. Just a dead politician who the British public put in power 3 times.
The joy of Accyweb is that no-one is in charge of opinions, not even the majority.

[cashman]

Was Hitler not put in power in Germany in the 30s? Doesn't make it right. They may not be opinions to you, but they are to others, n mine are sod all to do wi you or any majority Not asking yeh or anyone to like or agree wi em, But you sure will never stop me giving em, until yeh own this forum.

[accyman]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

'I hope the evil cow went out in as much pain as possible'.
'Mass Murderer'.
'Tip her down a mine shaft'.
'She was evil'.
'Putting a stake through her heart if she has one'.

.

two of those are MINE - pun intended

now shes off the death wish lets see whos next

ahh mr cameron ......(fingers crossed)

[Mog]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

'I hope the evil cow went out in as much pain as possible'.
'Mass Murderer'.
'Tip her down a mine shaft'.
'She was evil'.
'Putting a stake through her heart if she has one'.

These aren't opinions, cashman!
We're not talking about Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot. Just a dead politician who the British public put in power 3 times.
The joy of Accyweb is that no-one is in charge of opinions, not even the majority.

Whether you liked her or not and never mind whether the tories did a good job or a bad job, whatever else may be true of her, Thatcher engaged in incredibly consequential acts that affected millions of people around the world. She played a key role not only in bringing about the first Gulf War but also using her influence to publicly advocate for the 2003 attack on Iraq. She denounced Nelson Mandela and his ANC as "terrorists", something even David Cameron ultimately admitted was wrong. She was a steadfast friend to brutal tyrants such as Augusto Pinochet, Saddam Hussein and Indonesian dictator General Suharto. in her words ("One of our very best and most valuable friends"). Also across Britain Thatcher is still hated for the damage she inflicted – and for her political legacy of rampant inequality and greed, privatisation and social breakdown.

[accyman]

Originally Posted by Mog

Whether you liked her or not and never mind whether the tories did a good job or a bad job, whatever else may be true of her, Thatcher engaged in incredibly consequential acts that affected millions of people around the world. She played a key role not only in bringing about the first Gulf War but also using her influence to publicly advocate for the 2003 attack on Iraq. She denounced Nelson Mandela and his ANC as "terrorists", something even David Cameron ultimately admitted was wrong. She was a steadfast friend to brutal tyrants such as Augusto Pinochet, Saddam Hussein and Indonesian dictator General Suharto. in her words ("One of our very best and most valuable friends"). Also across Britain Thatcher is still hated for the damage she inflicted – and for her political legacy of rampant inequality and greed, privatisation and social breakdown.

she also kicked kittens for fun

[Mog]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Cashy, that is not the issue here....it is respect for the whole family who are grieving regardless of their past.
It isn't about what he has done or what he hasn't done, it is about the loss a family are grieving for.
They have lost a mother...and you only ever have one of those...and however bad they are....you still have lost.
I cannot explain it any better than that.
Her life has to be about more than the 11 years she was in office.......but, that is just how I see it.
My mother is almost the same age and I know how I would feel if she were to die tomorrow......perhaps some of you cannot empathise with this.

This demand for respectful silence in the wake of a public figure's death is not just misguided but dangerous. That one should not speak ill of the dead is arguably appropriate when a private person dies, but it is wildly inappropriate for the death of a controversial public figure, particularly one who wielded significant influence and political power. "Respecting the grief" of Thatcher's family members is appropriate if one is friends with them or attends a wake they organise, but the protocols are fundamentally different when it comes to public discourse about the person's life and political acts.

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by maxthecollie

Rot in pieces

In the grand scheme of things that's what will happen to us all.
More or less.

[GEaston]

Thatcher's achievements far exceed her negatives.

Britain in 1979 was like Greece. 6 years later it was the economic powerhouse of Europe.

Sure there were groups that got trampled on along the way, but that's true whenever change occurs and god knows change was needed. We couldn't even clear rubbish away under Labour.

Fact is she was driven, intelligent, determined, principled. Majority of the population respected her for it. I worked in the city of London during this time and the toffs got what they deserved. Prior to 1986 there was a club of elite who ran London. They walked around the city wearing silver top hats (truly, they did). She bust that up with deregulation and the introduction of electronic trading, and wider asset ownership (houses to companies). Terrible companies like British Leyland rightly went to the wall.

I come from the North, and every male member of my family back to 1700 (and probably long prior) was down a mine. Most died in their 20's to 50s from either accidents or lung related death. I'm pleased that industry was killed off in the UK in the same way that I'm happy that kids aren't sent up chimneys to clean them. Wanting to preserve industries that are clearly technologically dead makes no sense. It's like moaning about cheap overseas cotton killing Accrington. In the case of coal, just scoop the top off the surface like they do at the largest open cast mine at Widdrington.

Thatcher turned around the economy, created an economic powerhouse, put Europe and Argentina in it's place and was so popular she was freely elected 3x. Of course a minority won't like her - so far as I can see in terms of statesmen its Neil Kinnock (who never got to power because she was so popular), Gerry Adams, and General Galtiery .

RIP Mrs T.

[ossy kid]

R.I.Pieces you old bag.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by susie123

Nowhere in so many words, but the tone of your posts suggests that is what you would like to see in this thread. I guess someone could always start another post for the I Hate Thatcher posts.

Not at all Sue.

My tone is one of compassion for a family that is grieving, whilst this bile fest goes on, not just on here but across the whole of the country...and by some people who are far too young to have even been alive when she was in politics. I have to come to the conclusion that this country is not only financially bankrupt, but morally bankrupt too.
The scenes of people celebrating anyones death are abhorrent to me - they are on a par with those of the muslim fanatics who did the same thing at Wooten Basset when our dead troops arrived home......they too had no compassion for the families who grieve....I was always told it was uncivilised and ill mannered to speak ill of the dead....that if you cannot say anything good, then hold your peace.
I celebrate my old fashioned, out moded ways.

I'm sorry if any of this offends the sensibilities of Accyweb members, because it seems like I am on my own here.