Market Hall Refurbishment

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Atarah

Finally, today, I found the plaque :-

As someone mentioned earlier, the market hall NEVER closed (was a bit awkward at times, but never closed).

I hope there's room for another plaque
Closed by Tesco.
??-??-????

When that new Tesco opens in Eagle St, how many people do you think will be in Accy Market Hall on that day, or in the days after.

Retlaw.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I hope they follow through with their threats.......it would leave the council with runny yolk all over their daft faces.

Why don't they reduce the rents of the stalls for the three month trial period of six day trading...this would lift some of the financial burden from the stall holders(though it would still cost them in their own personal free time)....it would give the stall holders the sense that there was a little bit of compromise.

I can see the Market hall being a permanent venue for music and arty farty things the way things are going....and that won't bring the money in.

Perhaps the Labour councillors, market traders and public haven't been shouting loud enough at the council? It hasn't really been publicised that people are against it, has it.....? I cannot believe that all the Conservative councillors are staunchly in favour of it either, which only reinforces the rumour about Britcliffe's rather dictatorial style with his members.

A series of questions was asked at last week's Cabinet meeting and we received the replies yesterday, although several are fudged and I am surprised by such a 'smoke and mirrors' approach, particularly with things which are likely to be sticking points anyway such as the flooring (already completed apparently) and the true cost of Quarterbridge.

I fear that whoever is in control of Hyndburn Borough Council next May will be left with an empty monument. We're really dealing with the vision of two people here, Cllrs Britcliffe and Haworth. Whilst in principle I applaud their endeavours, this stubborn refusal to accept defeat and listen to your critics will be the downfall not only of the Market Hall but also themselves.

The only real losers here are the traders themselves and the public, just the people who do the actual voting....

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by shillelagh

anyone seen this weeks accy observer ... on page 3 is an advert for the market hall .. saying now open wednesdays from 4th october .... and celeb chef aldo zilli will be giving cooking demos in the market hall on wednesday 6th october .. times 10.30 - 11.15am, 12.30 - 1.15pm and 3.00 -3.45pm and also there will be entertainers and musicians in the market hall on wednesday 6th and saturday 9th october .. though face painting will be available on the saturday only .. and ongoing entertainment in the market hall on saturdays up to christmas .. also sean wilson will be offering tastings of his cheeses and talking cheese on saturday 9th october

I'm not entirely sure how much this is all costing either, although at least they are having a go at pulling people in.

The problem is that the traders are still having to find the money to pay collossal rents and hire extra staff and almost every one of them wants more investment in the days when the market is already open rather than extra days. I personally would drop the rents and fill every stall in there rather than trying to squeeze even more out of the successful ones.

It's common sense, but when has that ever been the overriding trait of those in power?

[Margaret Pilkington]

Well Ken, there are other losers in this too.......the revenue which would be forthcoming from a successful market hall would be lost, and the deaf councillors who have flown in the face of considered and knowledgable opinion, will look totally daft for not recognising what is staring them in the mush.

It is not too late to save the place....but it would take a climbdown from the uncompromising stance of the councillors railroading this through.
Why don't they make it optional for the traders to open if they feel that trade will stand it? Still, that is a simple solution, and I don't reckon they are into looking at the simplest ideas.

[Less]

Originally Posted by shillelagh

anyone seen this weeks accy observer ... on page 3 is an advert for the market hall .. saying now open wednesdays from 4th october ....

I don't know who wrote that but, it is impossible to have the market hall open on Wednesdays from the 4th of October because the 4th is a Monday.
They can start on Wednesday the 6th of October if they wish because that is a Wednesday.

Or are they expecting people to start queuing on Monday the 4th in preperation for Glorious Wednesday?

[accysimon]

Originally Posted by Less

I don't know who wrote that but, it is impossible to have the market hall open on Wednesdays from the 4th of October because the 4th is a Monday.
They can start on Wednesday the 6th of October if they wish because that is a Wednesday.

Or are they expecting people to start queuing on Monday the 4th in preperation for Glorious Wednesday?

Nice one Less...I will refrain from any political comment for once.

[Mick]

Less she meant wednesday the 4th October 2017

[Tealeaf]

There are a couple of points that I have not yet seen raised on this issue of 6 day opening:

1) Historically, most towns grew around their markets which were granted by Royal Charter; these charters - often going back to the 12th or 13th centuries - specified on which days markets were to be held in the town (usually, two or three times a week). My questions therefore are a) Does Accy hold an historic Charter? b) When was it granted? and c) what conditions are there pertaining to the holding of the market? It may well be that by forcing traders to open 6 days a week, the council is in violation of it's charter and action as such may be illegal under ancient statute.

This is one for Retlaw, I think so come in Walter & lets have your thoughts.

b) While i am certainly no lover of the EU, anyone in business is fully aware of the mass of employment legislation originating in Brussels. Employment Protection covers not just employees, but the self-employed as well. This legislation covers the amount of time anyone can legally work without a break and as such it seems to me that by forcing many of these self-employed market stall holders to work 6 days through they will be in violation of EU law.

I'm not a lawyer or an HR guy but maybe someone who knows more about this can comment.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

There are a couple of points that I have not yet seen raised on this issue of 6 day opening:

1) Historically, most towns grew around their markets which were granted by Royal Charter; these charters - often going back to the 12th or 13th centuries - specified on which days markets were to be held in the town (usually, two or three times a week). My questions therefore are a) Does Accy hold an historic Charter? b) When was it granted? and c) what conditions are there pertaining to the holding of the market? It may well be that by forcing traders to open 6 days a week, the council is in violation of it's charter and action as such may be illegal under ancient statute.

This is one for Retlaw, I think so come in Walter & lets have your thoughts.

b) While i am certainly no lover of the EU, anyone in business is fully aware of the mass of employment legislation originating in Brussels. Employment Protection covers not just employees, but the self-employed as well. This legislation covers the amount of time anyone can legally work without a break and as such it seems to me that by forcing many of these self-employed market stall holders to work 6 days through they will be in violation of EU law.

I'm not a lawyer or an HR guy but maybe someone who knows more about this can comment.

methinks this could be a mine our Ken could go digging? nowt to lose, much to gain.

[Tealeaf]

I certainly think that on the latter point, it would be unwise of the council to go ahead with it's 3 month trial 6 day opening without fully checking their possible liabilities under law.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

I certainly think that on the latter point, it would be unwise of the council to go ahead with it's 3 month trial 6 day opening without fully checking their possible liabilities under law.

well to be truthful, i hope they do, in it turns out well............all in the best possible taste. but then T, putting P.B. n wise don't go in the same sentence.

[gynn]

According to the Observer -

"Councillor Pam Barton, whose family runs a stall in the market, said: "......... most of them are one-man stalls and they cannot afford to employ people."

In response Councillor Haworth said these businesses should make use of the market hall's new Enterprise Hub."

So, presumably, any single operator who fancies a day off, or needs to nip to the loo, can just hand the keys to the till over to a complete stranger.

Problem solved!

[shillelagh]

have a read of this ... theres no mention of a charter .. but it comes under the duchy of lancaster ...i know haslingden has a market charter granted in the 1600s .... but dont know if accrington has one ...

Townships - Old and New Accrington | British History Online

[Margaret Pilkington]

why are the market tenents being asked to sign an agreement ahead of the 3 month trial period?

Councillor Haworth obviously doesn not understand the logistics of being a sole trader(and very much sounds like she doesn't want to understand/see their point of view)........and it doesn't matter how much committment she feels these traders should give to the market hall, in the end it all comes down to economics. The traders are in there to make a living.

Councillor Haworth says she feels that after working with the market traders for something like 5 years, she feels they should have developed some trust in her.

And why should the market traders trust Councillor Haworth when they feel she is (on behalf of the council) railroading through a decision in which there was no meaningful consultation.

Personally, I don't want entertainment, or demonstrations of cheese making, cookery, macrame.

What I want is a market hall that has items that I want to buy.
I don't think Tesco will be putting on entertainment to bring in the shoppers, they will rely on goods that prove to be good value for money....and that is what the market hall should be about.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

. I personally would drop the rents and fill every stall in there rather than trying to squeeze even more out of the successful ones.

It's common sense, but when has that ever been the overriding trait of those in power?

That is exactly what should be happening.......the market hall should be full of stalls, as it was before they started messing around with it......this would return the vibrancy and the uniqueness of the place and it would make a visit far more interesting.

At the moment it is a half empty place that looks half finished.