|
General Chat General chat - common sense in here please. Decent serious discussions to be enjoyed by everyone! |
|
|
Welcome to Accrington Web!
We are a discussion forum dedicated to the towns of Accrington, Oswaldtwistle and the surrounding areas, sometimes referred to as Hyndburn! We are a friendly bunch please feel free to browse or read on for more info. You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, photos, play in the community arcade and use our blog section. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!
|
19-01-2011, 13:56
|
#961
|
Senior Member+
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,136
Liked: 10 times
Rep Power: 4981
|
Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
How would a trader who wants it to be optional answer the question "Do you want 6 day trading yes or no?"
|
|
|
19-01-2011, 14:11
|
#962
|
Common Sense Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rishton
Posts: 2,351
Liked: 16 times
Rep Power: 7636
|
Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
I was hoping we could have got the motion passed, had a vote and then a final decision could have been made rather than all the arguing that is going on. It's a vote I would have been quite happy to lose, all I wanted was a democratic chance for the traders to decide their own fate.
Gynn, the idea is not to force closure or opening of the Market Hall on Wednesdays, just to stop forcing the traders. Some want Wednesday opening, some want to be selective about it when it suits them as is the adaptive nature of all those who are self-employed.
Wednesdays in Hyndburn are traditionally the day of the week where shops are closed or only open for half of the day and trying to change that by saying that it is the 21st century and 'Tesco doesn't do it' are rather flimsy arguments. I will once more point to Bury for an example of a market which certainly has no need for 6-day trading.
Opening longer hours doesn't mean more trade and I fail to see that people will be more inclined to shop on Wednesday at the Market Hall than Saturday. The upstairs units are open 6 days, several stalls want to be open 6 days, many of the others would like the option of being able to open a sixth day without being forced to. The Market Hall is already open 6 days, just don't try and force traders into something which isn't going to work just to save face.
Clearly I have been harbouring under the misapprehension that democracy is a good thing.
|
|
|
19-01-2011, 14:21
|
#963
|
Common Sense Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rishton
Posts: 2,351
Liked: 16 times
Rep Power: 7636
|
Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
If they are so sure the market traders want 6 days why not allow the vote and put it to bed once and for all?
What will happen in May if Labour have the majority? Will they start to play with the opening times again I wonder?
This could go on for ever.
|
It could, but I hope it doesn't. All that needs to happen is a democratic vote by the stallholders that the councillors take note of instead of trying to pretend that they know how to run a market stall better than generations of traders. I pity the traders at Blackburn, the situation they are facing seems no different.
I have said in the past that 35 councillors representing over 80,000 residents in Hyndburn isn't too unreasonable but there are times when 35 councillors dictating to over 80,000 residents in the face of adversity is somewhat embarrassing.
The current controlling group is a bit more 'transmit' than 'receive' for my liking.
|
|
|
19-01-2011, 15:00
|
#964
|
Administrator
|
Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss
The current controlling group is a bit more 'transmit' than 'receive' for my liking.
|
I take it you prefer it both ways?
__________________
Site Forum Rules/ Site Disclaimer can be seen from this link
|
|
|
19-01-2011, 16:27
|
#965
|
God Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: i'm on the edge of glory
Posts: 13,528
Liked: 214 times
Rep Power: 95231
|
Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
Blackburn have managed to alienate most market traders, they are due to move into The Mall in March and i was talking to one of the stallholders last week and he told me that NO ONE has actually signed anything yet to say they want a stall in the new market, they have a plan up on one of the walls that tells you where all the stalls are moving to but i can't see how this is possible, unless that is just where they have been allocated....we'll see hey, i know a number of stalls aren't being 'allowed' to go into The Mall and are having to cease trading, it's a total shambles
|
|
|
19-01-2011, 16:32
|
#966
|
God Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,281
Liked: 995 times
Rep Power: 11935
|
Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
Quote:
Originally Posted by flashy
Blackburn have managed to alienate most market traders, they are due to move into The Mall in March and i was talking to one of the stallholders last week and he told me that NO ONE has actually signed anything yet to say they want a stall in the new market, they have a plan up on one of the walls that tells you where all the stalls are moving to but i can't see how this is possible, unless that is just where they have been allocated....we'll see hey, i know a number of stalls aren't being 'allowed' to go into The Mall and are having to cease trading, it's a total shambles
|
One of the companies's contracted on the new market have gone bust so the work is delayed anyway
|
|
|
19-01-2011, 16:48
|
#967
|
God Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: i'm on the edge of glory
Posts: 13,528
Liked: 214 times
Rep Power: 95231
|
Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
it's all going to be a disaster Dave
|
|
|
19-01-2011, 18:55
|
#968
|
Resting in Peace
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a state of confusion
Posts: 36,973
Liked: 715 times
Rep Power: 76552
|
Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss
And here he is. To put everything in perspective, here is the exact wording of my motion last night:
This Council agrees as a matter of urgency to request that Cabinet hold a ballot of Market Hall Traders and that each business within Accrington Market Hall will be given one vote as to whether 6-day trading continues beyond January 2011 and that no members of Hyndburn Borough Council or its employees will be able to take part in the ballot. Ballot papers will need to be returned to the Market Hall Superintendent for a recorded vote at close of business on 31st January 2011 to be witnessed by one Conservative member, one Labour member and one Independent member. The details of the recorded vote will remain confidential and the outcome of the vote will be this Council’s recommendation to be implemented by Cabinet at its meeting on 8th February 2011.
A list of signatures from the Market Hall traders and their preferences regarding 6-day trading was handed to me just prior to the meeting and explicitly showed that 6 traders are firmly against 6 day trading, 5 are in favour of it, 16 would like it to be optional and 1 trader did not sign. This was copied to every councillor in the chamber although the Mayor withdrew it as evidence on the basis that it was not legally admissible following advice from the officers
In contrast, Cllr Hayworth gave a similar presentation with variant figures and the 'suggestion' that the majority of traders wanted 6 day trading. She conceded that 6 day trading wasn't working but 5-and-a-half days would now be pushed instead. I was accused of single-handedly causing all the friction in the Market Hall over 6-day trading and not letting it drop by continually mentioning it on my website, later revealed to be....Accyweb! Cllr Haworth asked the Labour group to stop going on about the Market Hall at council meetings and put the matter to bed.
My summing up was that I was trying to put it to bed in a democratic way, allowing the traders the unequivocal chance to say once and for all how they feel about 6 day trading officially and end the argument. I pointed out the similar situation brewing in Blackburn and that every councillor wants the Market Hall to succeed, not a £2.5m empty monument to council ignorance in 12 months' time. I did point out that a vote against the motion would be voting against a democratic vote for the traders but this went largely unheeded.
There were 14 votes in favour, 16 votes against and three abstentions.
Viva democracy in Hyndburn.
|
Well Ken you can't get fairer than that really, like yourself I have said that was the only way forward, now its solely down to those it affects and no body else
__________________
35 YEARS AND COUNTING
|
|
|
19-01-2011, 19:44
|
#969
|
Common Sense Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rishton
Posts: 2,351
Liked: 16 times
Rep Power: 7636
|
Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay
Well Ken you can't get fairer than that really, like yourself I have said that was the only way forward, now its solely down to those it affects and no body else
|
Well thanks John but I lost the motion so really it's in the hands of the controlling group.
Pity really, I would have preferred a solution which gave the traders the final say.
|
|
|
19-01-2011, 22:26
|
#970
|
Beacon of light
|
Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
And there I was....thinking that sanity had prevailed at last.
I must have misread(or misunderstood) your post Ken.........I thought that the traders had given it the thumbs down(well, the majority of them anyway).
It was dead in there today.
I can see the day when the market hall is just a vast empty space where the ghosts of traders past congregate.
Still the council will be able to use it for storage I guess.......or maybe they will turn it into flats.
__________________
The world will not be destroyed by evil people...
It will be destroyed by those who stand by and do Nothing.
(a paraphrase on a quote by Albert Einstein)
|
|
|
19-01-2011, 22:28
|
#971
|
Full Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: clayton le moors
Posts: 189
Liked: 13 times
Rep Power: 176
|
Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atarah
|
bet it wasn't done by a local company
|
|
|
19-01-2011, 22:32
|
#972
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Clayton-le-Moors
Posts: 892
Liked: 0 times
Rep Power: 271
|
Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
Ken's copy of the list of signatures from the Market Hall traders was almost snatched out of his hand by Cllr Marlene Haworth, who rushed across the council chamber to try and grab hold of it. Luckily Ken managed to fight her off and did not give up his copy of the list, also all the Labour Group kept hold of their copies as well.
|
|
|
19-01-2011, 22:35
|
#973
|
Give, give, give member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Overlookin' ducks & geese
Posts: 32,411
Liked: 27 times
Rep Power: 16468
|
Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington
And there I was....thinking that sanity had prevailed at last.
I must have misread(or misunderstood) your post Ken.........I thought that the traders had given it the thumbs down(well, the majority of them anyway).
It was dead in there today.
I can see the day when the market hall is just a vast empty space where the ghosts of traders past congregate.
Still the council will be able to use it for storage I guess.......or maybe they will turn it into flats.
|
It was fairly sparcely populated in there yesterday afternoon.
Upstairs looked even quieter.
Just a big banner, flapping off the balcony, loudly advertising all day breakfasts at discounted prices.
Never a good sign, when evaluating the health of a business.
__________________
'If you're going to be a Kant, be the very best Kant there is my son.'
Johann Georg Kant, father of Immanuel Kant, philosopher.
|
|
|
19-01-2011, 22:39
|
#974
|
Give, give, give member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Overlookin' ducks & geese
Posts: 32,411
Liked: 27 times
Rep Power: 16468
|
Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
Quote:
Originally Posted by claytonender
Ken's copy of the list of signatures from the Market Hall traders was almost snatched out of his hand by Cllr Marlene Haworth, who rushed across the council chamber to try and grab hold of it. Luckily Ken managed to fight her off and did not give up his copy of the list, also all the Labour Group kept hold of their copies as well.
|
Was she in authentic Victorian costume?
This could have hindered her speed, when attempting the twenty yard dash.
__________________
'If you're going to be a Kant, be the very best Kant there is my son.'
Johann Georg Kant, father of Immanuel Kant, philosopher.
|
|
|
19-01-2011, 22:50
|
#975
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Clayton-le-Moors
Posts: 892
Liked: 0 times
Rep Power: 271
|
Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda
Was she in authentic Victorian costume?
This could have hindered her speed, when attempting the twenty yard dash.
|
No she wasn't in Victorian costume, but I think she might be practicing for the 100m at the 2012 Olympics, she certainly moved very quickly.
|
|
|
Other sites of interest.. |
More town sites.. |
|
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 11:18.
© 2003-2013 AccringtonWeb.com
|
|