Market Hall Refurbishment

[gynn]

How would a trader who wants it to be optional answer the question "Do you want 6 day trading yes or no?"

[Ken Moss]

I was hoping we could have got the motion passed, had a vote and then a final decision could have been made rather than all the arguing that is going on. It's a vote I would have been quite happy to lose, all I wanted was a democratic chance for the traders to decide their own fate.

Gynn, the idea is not to force closure or opening of the Market Hall on Wednesdays, just to stop forcing the traders. Some want Wednesday opening, some want to be selective about it when it suits them as is the adaptive nature of all those who are self-employed.

Wednesdays in Hyndburn are traditionally the day of the week where shops are closed or only open for half of the day and trying to change that by saying that it is the 21st century and 'Tesco doesn't do it' are rather flimsy arguments. I will once more point to Bury for an example of a market which certainly has no need for 6-day trading.

Opening longer hours doesn't mean more trade and I fail to see that people will be more inclined to shop on Wednesday at the Market Hall than Saturday. The upstairs units are open 6 days, several stalls want to be open 6 days, many of the others would like the option of being able to open a sixth day without being forced to. The Market Hall is already open 6 days, just don't try and force traders into something which isn't going to work just to save face.

Clearly I have been harbouring under the misapprehension that democracy is a good thing.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Neil

If they are so sure the market traders want 6 days why not allow the vote and put it to bed once and for all?

What will happen in May if Labour have the majority? Will they start to play with the opening times again I wonder?

This could go on for ever.

It could, but I hope it doesn't. All that needs to happen is a democratic vote by the stallholders that the councillors take note of instead of trying to pretend that they know how to run a market stall better than generations of traders. I pity the traders at Blackburn, the situation they are facing seems no different.

I have said in the past that 35 councillors representing over 80,000 residents in Hyndburn isn't too unreasonable but there are times when 35 councillors dictating to over 80,000 residents in the face of adversity is somewhat embarrassing.

The current controlling group is a bit more 'transmit' than 'receive' for my liking.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

The current controlling group is a bit more 'transmit' than 'receive' for my liking.

I take it you prefer it both ways?

[flashy]

Blackburn have managed to alienate most market traders, they are due to move into The Mall in March and i was talking to one of the stallholders last week and he told me that NO ONE has actually signed anything yet to say they want a stall in the new market, they have a plan up on one of the walls that tells you where all the stalls are moving to but i can't see how this is possible, unless that is just where they have been allocated....we'll see hey, i know a number of stalls aren't being 'allowed' to go into The Mall and are having to cease trading, it's a total shambles

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by flashy

Blackburn have managed to alienate most market traders, they are due to move into The Mall in March and i was talking to one of the stallholders last week and he told me that NO ONE has actually signed anything yet to say they want a stall in the new market, they have a plan up on one of the walls that tells you where all the stalls are moving to but i can't see how this is possible, unless that is just where they have been allocated....we'll see hey, i know a number of stalls aren't being 'allowed' to go into The Mall and are having to cease trading, it's a total shambles

One of the companies's contracted on the new market have gone bust so the work is delayed anyway

[flashy]

it's all going to be a disaster Dave

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

And here he is. To put everything in perspective, here is the exact wording of my motion last night:

This Council agrees as a matter of urgency to request that Cabinet hold a ballot of Market Hall Traders and that each business within Accrington Market Hall will be given one vote as to whether 6-day trading continues beyond January 2011 and that no members of Hyndburn Borough Council or its employees will be able to take part in the ballot. Ballot papers will need to be returned to the Market Hall Superintendent for a recorded vote at close of business on 31st January 2011 to be witnessed by one Conservative member, one Labour member and one Independent member. The details of the recorded vote will remain confidential and the outcome of the vote will be this Council’s recommendation to be implemented by Cabinet at its meeting on 8th February 2011.

A list of signatures from the Market Hall traders and their preferences regarding 6-day trading was handed to me just prior to the meeting and explicitly showed that 6 traders are firmly against 6 day trading, 5 are in favour of it, 16 would like it to be optional and 1 trader did not sign. This was copied to every councillor in the chamber although the Mayor withdrew it as evidence on the basis that it was not legally admissible following advice from the officers

In contrast, Cllr Hayworth gave a similar presentation with variant figures and the 'suggestion' that the majority of traders wanted 6 day trading. She conceded that 6 day trading wasn't working but 5-and-a-half days would now be pushed instead. I was accused of single-handedly causing all the friction in the Market Hall over 6-day trading and not letting it drop by continually mentioning it on my website, later revealed to be....Accyweb! Cllr Haworth asked the Labour group to stop going on about the Market Hall at council meetings and put the matter to bed.

My summing up was that I was trying to put it to bed in a democratic way, allowing the traders the unequivocal chance to say once and for all how they feel about 6 day trading officially and end the argument. I pointed out the similar situation brewing in Blackburn and that every councillor wants the Market Hall to succeed, not a £2.5m empty monument to council ignorance in 12 months' time. I did point out that a vote against the motion would be voting against a democratic vote for the traders but this went largely unheeded.

There were 14 votes in favour, 16 votes against and three abstentions.

Viva democracy in Hyndburn.

Well Ken you can't get fairer than that really, like yourself I have said that was the only way forward, now its solely down to those it affects and no body else

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Well Ken you can't get fairer than that really, like yourself I have said that was the only way forward, now its solely down to those it affects and no body else

Well thanks John but I lost the motion so really it's in the hands of the controlling group.

Pity really, I would have preferred a solution which gave the traders the final say.

[Margaret Pilkington]

And there I was....thinking that sanity had prevailed at last.

I must have misread(or misunderstood) your post Ken.........I thought that the traders had given it the thumbs down(well, the majority of them anyway).

It was dead in there today.

I can see the day when the market hall is just a vast empty space where the ghosts of traders past congregate.

Still the council will be able to use it for storage I guess.......or maybe they will turn it into flats.

[duggie]

Originally Posted by Atarah

Wow! Called in Market Hall today and got my first glimpse of our new posh upstairs bit. Take a look .....



Here is a bit of history for those overseas : -
Historic Accrington Markets - Accrington Market Hall Refurbishment Update

bet it wasn't done by a local company

[claytonender]

Ken's copy of the list of signatures from the Market Hall traders was almost snatched out of his hand by Cllr Marlene Haworth, who rushed across the council chamber to try and grab hold of it. Luckily Ken managed to fight her off and did not give up his copy of the list, also all the Labour Group kept hold of their copies as well.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

And there I was....thinking that sanity had prevailed at last.

I must have misread(or misunderstood) your post Ken.........I thought that the traders had given it the thumbs down(well, the majority of them anyway).

It was dead in there today.

I can see the day when the market hall is just a vast empty space where the ghosts of traders past congregate.

Still the council will be able to use it for storage I guess.......or maybe they will turn it into flats.

It was fairly sparcely populated in there yesterday afternoon.

Upstairs looked even quieter.

Just a big banner, flapping off the balcony, loudly advertising all day breakfasts at discounted prices.

Never a good sign, when evaluating the health of a business.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by claytonender

Ken's copy of the list of signatures from the Market Hall traders was almost snatched out of his hand by Cllr Marlene Haworth, who rushed across the council chamber to try and grab hold of it. Luckily Ken managed to fight her off and did not give up his copy of the list, also all the Labour Group kept hold of their copies as well.

Was she in authentic Victorian costume?

This could have hindered her speed, when attempting the twenty yard dash.

[claytonender]

Originally Posted by garinda

Was she in authentic Victorian costume?

This could have hindered her speed, when attempting the twenty yard dash.

No she wasn't in Victorian costume, but I think she might be practicing for the 100m at the 2012 Olympics, she certainly moved very quickly.