Meat Stinks

[expat]

Most people can just say bacon without associating cruelty behind it.can order a pizza with a couple of bits of bacon on it,without thinking that just to satisfy there taste buds a piglet was born raised in cruel conditioned then dragged out off its pen to have its throat cut by a nice animal loving slaughter man just to satify your palate I to used to like the odd piece of bacon but stopped to look where it really came from,so next time you order a pizza with those 5 or 6 peices bacon on it. just stop and think.

[garinda]

It's called choices.

Where do you stand on the testing of drugs on animals?

[Bazf]

[expat]

Most people can quite easily say bacon, without thinking about the cruelty behind it,most kids today wouldn't know death is connected to the word, they might just see the picture of a happy smiling pig on the side of the butchers van,I personally think that they should run school excursions to the slaughter house,show them where it really comes from, and it isn,t just the slaughter house where it all happens, maybe they have images of the farmers daughter cuddling a little piglet on her knee, GET REAL So the next time your order a pizza with a few peices of bacon on it just to satify your taste buds Think DEATH & CRUELTY !
Not Bacon. I'am not knocking anybody for eating meat I have been there to,but just to think beyond the word.

[vorlon24]

What about all those poor defenseless little potatoes?

All they want in life is to grow up and be big potatoes, go and get a job as a lawyer, or whatever, and retire on a nice pension.

But, no, they get dug up before they are even old enough to go to nursery school, then they get boiled alive.

And you say we are cruel to animals...

[Margaret Pilkington]

And the farmers would continue to keep animals if we all went vegetarian.
I admire your conviction, and applaud your choice, ah, yes choice....we all have that option.
I choose to eat meat. I haven't any control over the way animals are reared and slaughtered......and choosing not to eat meat is not a viable way to improve an animals life or death.

There was a farmer on North West Tonight last night.....he was a sheep farmer.....he had 400 sheep..... he had names for all of them.....he was leaving his farm and selling the sheep..... he had tears in his eyes and said they were all different to him... though they all looked the same to us. Don't tell me he was cruel to them, because it was obvious that he loved his flock. He may be in a minority, but somehow I don't think so.

[garinda]

Come on expat, I asked you a question.

What about the testing of drugs on animals?

[baby boo]

So thousands of years ago when cavemen went out hunting for food, they should have stopped and thought to themselves "mmm maybe we should have leaves instead and let the poor animals run wild and eat us instead"??

i dont think so!!

Yes we kill them but we kill them straight away! c'est la vie!!!!

i for one wouldnt give up my meat.

you say they should teach kids about slaughtering, have you ever seen lion king?? where the father lion is teaching his son that he is in a food chain and in order to stay alive he must hunt for food? is this teaching kids wrongly?? i think its correct i used to watch animal shows with my parents and used to feel sorry for the animal that got eaten and my mum and dad used to say its the circle of life and that the predator needed to eat too, after i watched lion king i understood what my parents were trying to tell me by saying circle of life,
i wonder if youd feel so strongly if you got eaten by a cow or a pig??

[expat]

There are countless examples in the medical journals where drugs and other chemicals react differently in people and animals (7):

* cortisone produces birth defects in mice but not people, whilst thalidomide works the other way around;
* morphine calms people but excites cats, goats and horses;
* penicillin is highly poisonous to guinea pigs and hamsters;
* insulin causes birth defects in animals but not in people;
* the antibiotic chloramphenicol produces the blood disease aplastic anaemia in some human patients but it saves animals;
* in dogs, the muscle-relaxing drug tubocurarine causes a severe fall in blood pressure but is comparatively safe for people (8);
* and doses of aspirin used in human therapeutics are poisonous to cats.


Experiments sometimes claim that species differences are rare. But in fact they occur frequently. Surveys have shown that most of the side-effects occurring in people when they take a drug cannot be correctly predicted by animal experiments (7). Nor can the problem be overcome by using more species of animals.
This is illustrated by the drugs aspirin and fenclozic acid (7). Aspirin causes birth defects in rats, mice, cats, dogs, guinea pigs and monkeys but is considered safe for pregnant women. The arthritis drug, fenclozic acid, causes liver toxicity in people but not in rats, mice, dogs, monkeys, rabbits, guinea pigs, ferrets, cats, pigs and horses.

[expat]

http://www.pnc.com.au/~cafmr/online/research/index.html

[baby boo]

okay so you know your stuff.

i take it you must spend hours and hours in the supermarket looking for products that have not been tested on animals?? how about certain things you wear aftershave? toiletrie products,..............

[Bazf]

http://www.mercola.com/2000/apr/2/vegetarian_myths.htm

Along with the saturated fat and cholesterol scares of the past several decades has come the notion that vegetarianism is a healthier dietary option for people. It seems as if every health expert and government health agency is urging people to eat fewer animal products and consume more vegetables, grains, fruits and legumes. Along with these exhortations have come assertions and studies supposedly proving that vegetarianism is healthier for people and that meat consumption causes sickness and death. Several medical authorities, however, have questioned these data, but their objections have been largely ignored.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by expat

There are countless examples in the medical journals where drugs and other chemicals react differently in people and animals (7):

* cortisone produces birth defects in mice but not people, whilst thalidomide works the other way around;
* morphine calms people but excites cats, goats and horses;
* penicillin is highly poisonous to guinea pigs and hamsters;
* insulin causes birth defects in animals but not in people;
* the antibiotic chloramphenicol produces the blood disease aplastic anaemia in some human patients but it saves animals;
* in dogs, the muscle-relaxing drug tubocurarine causes a severe fall in blood pressure but is comparatively safe for people (8);
* and doses of aspirin used in human therapeutics are poisonous to cats.


Experiments sometimes claim that species differences are rare. But in fact they occur frequently. Surveys have shown that most of the side-effects occurring in people when they take a drug cannot be correctly predicted by animal experiments (7). Nor can the problem be overcome by using more species of animals.
This is illustrated by the drugs aspirin and fenclozic acid (7). Aspirin causes birth defects in rats, mice, cats, dogs, guinea pigs and monkeys but is considered safe for pregnant women. The arthritis drug, fenclozic acid, causes liver toxicity in people but not in rats, mice, dogs, monkeys, rabbits, guinea pigs, ferrets, cats, pigs and horses.

Quoting facts and figures didn't really answer my question again. Are you in favour or against the testing of drugs on animals as a vegetarian?

[Margaret Pilkington]

Reducing tha amount of animal fat eaten does not reduce cholsterol levels significantly.....in fact most of the cholesterol is manufactured by the liver. The only effective way to reduce cholesterol levels is to take one of the statins.

And as far as vegetarian diets go.....what about the level of pesticides that are being found in the fresh fruit and vegetables at the moment. So, it seems to me that however we try to improve our health by diet there will be some survey or other that will tell us that we are doing the wrong thing.

I am going to eat the food that appeals to me the most.....life is finite, it might as well be enjoyable.

[entwisi]

People say you wouldn't eat meat if you saw how they are killed etc. I would be happy to kill whatever animals I chose to eat though. How does that fit with the ideology of vegetarianism? We have factory farming of animals because people want chicken at £1/lb. It is a commercial necessity to raise livestock that way to meet the costs that we teh public will pay. Would you be happy to eat meat that has been ethically raised? How much extra would you be prepared to pay to ensure they have been well looked after and killed in as humane method as possible. Would it change your views on eating meat?

I buy my lambs from local farms and collect them when they have been slaughtered. That way I feel not only am I getting top quality meat I am also supporting my local farms. Likewise with vegetables, local market(or even better farmers markets) offer better quality produce at lower prices. Yet teh majority of people trudge down to the ASDA week in week out.