Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by jambutty

If some of the bridges are not high enough then lower the rail track.

Jim..........I would suggest that all the bridges are not high enough?

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by Royboy39

Jim..........I would suggest that all the bridges are not high enough?

OK! So all bridges are too low. By suggesting lowering the rail track I was pointing out that there is more than one way to skin a cat. You just have to look at the problem from a wider angle.

Trains transport sea going containers OK so no bridge would be too low. What is wrong in using those instead of a huge HGV? After all a goods train is just a land going ship of a different shape.

With proper organisation most of the goods traffic could go by rail between the major towns and cities.

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by jambutty

OK! So all bridges are too low. By suggesting lowering the rail track I was pointing out that there is more than one way to skin a cat. You just have to look at the problem from a wider angle.

Trains transport sea going containers OK so no bridge would be too low. What is wrong in using those instead of a huge HGV? After all a goods train is just a land going ship of a different shape.

With proper organisation most of the goods traffic could go by rail between the major towns and cities.

That would cause havoc in the transport industry - Thousands of jobs etc.,
The containers would still have to be transported to the trains and would still need HGV's to take the goods to delivery destinations.
Perishable foods have to be delivered on time at risk of a penalty to the haulier. I dont think it will work.

[katex]

Problem is most motorways are so congested these days, that it is very rare that you can get a decent gap in the inside lane to make it worth your while before you have to exit into the middle lane to overtake the slower lorries, and then you can't get out because of the middle lane drivers.

I can't see what the problem is if driving a car, you just move out into the outside lane to overtake and back again .. again if you can find a decent stretch to continue at the speed you like to travel .. over 60 m.p.h. of course.

I have a great respect for lorry drivers and understand that they may wish to overtake the slower larger one in front (particularly going down hill) and so easy to spot when they wish to do this and automatically move into outside lane .. so many drivers cannot anticipate this at all.

I am quite bemused, on the rare occasions, you have a good stretch of clear motorway (only on the M65, M40, M54, north M6 during the day,does this rarely happen) by the ones that do hog the middle lane .. came up against one this week travelling around 60, and you have to move out to middle,then outside to overtake .. do not undertake or could find yourself with a police siren up yer backside.

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by Royboy39

That would cause havoc in the transport industry - Thousands of jobs etc.,
The containers would still have to be transported to the trains and would still need HGV's to take the goods to delivery destinations.
Perishable foods have to be delivered on time at risk of a penalty to the haulier. I dont think it will work.

It cost tens of thousands of jobs in the coal, steel, shipbuilding and cotton industry to mention just four and caused havoc. It’s called progress.

Too right the containers would have still to be transported from the railhead to the shops/depots etc. by road. What's the difference between coming from a motoroway into smaller towns and from a rail head? Hardly any. But it would save hundreds of thousands of road miles (on motorways) transporting by rail between cities/towns. It would probably be cheaper too.

Instead of being away from home for days on end HGV drivers could go home every night. Some may not like that but I should imagine that the majority would jump at the chance.

Perishable goods have to be delivered on time now so what’s the difference?

The problem with this country is that no sooner has someone come up with a new way of doing something all you get is negative feedback usually ending with “it can’t be done”. What’s happened to the ‘get up and go’ that this country used to have? I guess it must have got up and gone.

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by katex

Problem is most motorways are so congested these days, that it is very rare that you can get a decent gap in the inside lane to make it worth your while before you have to exit into the middle lane to overtake the slower lorries, and then you can't get out because of the middle lane drivers.

I can't see what the problem is if driving a car, you just move out into the outside lane to overtake and back again .. again if you can find a decent stretch to continue at the speed you like to travel .. over 60 m.p.h. of course.

I have a great respect for lorry drivers and understand that they may wish to overtake the slower larger one in front (particularly going down hill) and so easy to spot when they wish to do this and automatically move into outside lane .. so many drivers cannot anticipate this at all.

I am quite bemused, on the rare occasions, you have a good stretch of clear motorway (only on the M65, M40, M54, north M6 during the day,does this rarely happen) by the ones that do hog the middle lane .. came up against one this week travelling around 60, and you have to move out to middle,then outside to overtake .. do not undertake or could find yourself with a police siren up yer backside.

This undertaking issue isn’t really an issue. If you are in the inside lane doing 70 mph, which you are allowed to do, and you come up against someone in the middle lane doing 60 mph you do not have to slow down to match their speed nor do you have to move out to the overtaking lane to pass them and get back into the nearside lane. You just keep on going as you were. No cop will ever pull you for that. And if he did he would have hard time explaining to the Magistrate why he pulled you.

It is only undertaking if you are in the middle lane and come up behind a middle lane hogger and you peel off to the inside lane to overtake and then get back into the middle lane.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by jambutty

Middle Lane Hoggers - Blasted!



People still blame Dr Beeching for the state of the railways today but all he did was close down unprofitable branch and secondary lines. The real problem was government underfunding and restrictive practices by the various unions and intransigence of management.

as far as i'm concerned this is not quite correct, sure unprofitable branch lines were shut, but so were profitable ones if my information was correct, a local example was platform1 accrington- manchester line,most of the older members will remember all the wheelchairs on platform1 for delivery to wherever,a late friend who worked on the railway told me many times it was a profitable little line, myself as an anorak (train spotter) in those days used the manchester line frequently n was always quite busy, after the demise of it,the wheelchairs went to road haulage,along with countless other goods around the country,sure underfunding by the government is a factor, same could be said of the NHS today, so nowts changed their.

[katex]

Originally Posted by jambutty

This undertaking issue isn’t really an issue. If you are in the inside lane doing 70 mph, which you are allowed to do, and you come up against someone in the middle lane doing 60 mph you do not have to slow down to match their speed nor do you have to move out to the overtaking lane to pass them and get back into the nearside lane. You just keep on going as you were. No cop will ever pull you for that. And if he did he would have hard time explaining to the Magistrate why he pulled you.

It is only undertaking if you are in the middle lane and come up behind a middle lane hogger and you peel off to the inside lane to overtake and then get back into the middle lane.

You could be correct Jambutty .. always found this rule a little ambiguous:-

242: Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

Always feel best to play safe though.. It does only state in congested conditions though, not clear motorways as I was trying to explain

[cashman]

see HGV driver or ex has got the hump at my post, like i give a monkeys about anonimity.

[K.S.H]

Theres only 1 thing that causes problems on roads - lack of respect
Happens in all lanes on all roads by all kinds of vehicle drivers, get some respect on the roads and 99% of the problems will go

[davo69]

if some one is in the middle lane with strech of inside l.ane empty they should move over if you are in the middle lane doing 70 mph over taking constently and some prat comes behind you flashing is lights just because they cant be botherd to move into third lane then thats rong

[entwisi]

I spend a good 2-2.5 hours a day on motorways and have covered over 250 thousand miles on them in the last 10 years.


I tend to be at the top end of the speed spectrum and whilst I find it infuriating to a degree to be stuck at 56 down teh M66 as a wagon overtakes another taking 1 mile or more to do it I sit back and wait for my turn to overtake. Middle lane hoggers are a pain in the bum, however there is NO law against 'undertaking'. At best you could be done for careless or dangerous driving but Plod need a significant amount of evidence to persue this, just passing someone whilst driving with full car and attention on teh left would not be enough. BTW , this is from a traffic plod biker I know so is absolutely correct.

as for shifting freight to railways, They stuggle to cope with teh current workload never mind the extra that is being suggested. Does this mean we should spend billions on upgrading railways or look at other ways...

[katex]

Originally Posted by entwisi

I tend to be at the top end of the speed spectrum and whilst I find it infuriating to a degree to be stuck at 56 down teh M66 as a wagon overtakes another taking 1 mile or more to do it I sit back and wait for my turn to overtake. Middle lane hoggers are a pain in the bum, however there is NO law against 'undertaking'. At best you could be done for careless or dangerous driving but Plod need a significant amount of evidence to persue this, just passing someone whilst driving with full car and attention on teh left would not be enough. BTW , this is from a traffic plod biker I know so is absolutely correct.

The M66 is mainly dual carriageway is it not Entwisi ? apart from the crawler lane coming up to Bury ? The Highway Code does appear to have rules though. Still can't see why middle lane hoggers would be a 'pain in the bum' to you though, when so easy to move into outside lane..just for lorry drivers who are not allowed in this lane.

' Course it is dangerous to undertake as never know when middle lane driver will move into inside lane as they will not be looking at their mirror to confirm anyone in this lane as usually nervous drivers, gripping wheel and only watching car in front.

[entwisi]

the M66 is a 2 lane motorway, not a dual carriageway. As such lorrys are allowed in the outside lane.

if two wagons are side by side for over a mile (i've measured them over 5 miles to do one overtake BTW) then it gets annoying

As for undertaking, for your second comment you should be paying FULL attention all the time so it shouldn't be a problem

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by entwisi

as for shifting freight to railways, They stuggle to cope with teh current workload never mind the extra that is being suggested. Does this mean we should spend billions on upgrading railways or look at other ways...

Problems are there to be solved and not just brushed aside and hope that they go away. But then that is a ‘can do’ attitude which sadly these days has turned into a ‘can’t be done’ attitude.

The current workload is related to the passenger service, which as you have to admit is different to freight. There is plenty of safe capacity to run an hourly freight service between the major towns and cities without interfering with the passenger service. Pick any point on a main line and count the trains that go by in the same direction. In most cases you would probably be lucky to see one an hour.

Without advocating a return to steam but when I was a kid and well into the fifties and sixties there were more freight trains than passenger trains. And in those days the car wasn’t god so most people travelled by train. They coped OK in those far off days. So why can’t they do it today?