Migrant Crisis in Calais

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

You reckon? A few facts for you about living in the land of the Fuhrer fella.

Language - spoken/ paperwork/officialdom = German, don't speak/read it, tough, you get an interpreter but you pay!

Hartz 4 - Dole €390,00 a month approx GBP 275,00

Accommodation for claimants will be paid but only what the Arbeitsamt (Dole office) deem acceptable, if they reckon it's to big for your "basic" requirements (roof, kitchenette, bedroom, toilet/bathroom, living room) it doesn't get paid or you find the difference.

Car - sell it or downsize to a fiat panda, savings - use them up first before they cough up.

Compulsory attendance to "invites" from AbtsAmt, paperwork & copies for job applications to be presented for inspection by your "Handler"

You even get a code to enter their jobs data base, which you must use as it's checked for time/effort/compliance.

availability - always, failure to comply = sanctions (money withheld), failure to attend an interview/taster day = sanctions (money withheld), only acceptable excuse being you were at another interview (proof required) or you were dead.

And all this just for starters! These are just broad outlines of how the system works here,just for your information mind.

That is exactly the way it should happen here too.
if these rules were applied rigorously then it might not seem such a haven for these people.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

They might have had good policies, but they are no good if you are not in a majority situation...and that was never going to happen so a vote for them was a wasted vote.

I have to disagree wi that line of thought, to me if enough voted UKIP it was the only chance to get the main parties off the pot. imho

[Margaret Pilkington]

But it was never going to happen Cashy...those main parties have such a solid core of those who do not think about who to vote for, but vote the way their father voted.....You and I both know that there are those who would vote for a donkey as long as it was under the appropriate banner.
And if a party does not get into power, then however good their manifesto was, it will NEVER materialise.
That is why the opposition ALWAYS have the answer to the problems which beset the country...it is because their solutions are never going to be tested because they are not in power.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

Can your 'average illegal' claim benefits in the uk,don't they have to claim asylum etc to claim?
I honestly don't know

In theory no, as an "illegal" they have no rights to claim anything. As an asylum seeker, different story as they will be catered for. That said though "Asylum" should be claimed within the first safe country they enter to escape their persecution/repression.

And since when did we have adjoining borders with Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan or any number of African countries, for that matter & I'm pretty sure they didn't wash up on our beaches in a rubber dingy after navigating the North Atlantic & the English channel.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

It's just possible that might be breaching their Human Rights

Can we not class them as invading our little island?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

Spoken like a true EDL,UKIP pawn...

UKIP yes EDL no thank you, the two are not linked and I wish to have no link between myself and the EDL thank you

[Accyexplorer]

It just gets my goat up when folk talk about these poor souls like they're muck on their shoe,in my eyes these folk are no less worthy of respect than anyone else.
They cannot help the circumstances their born into,I accept we need to deal with the problem at Calais etc, but I'd like to see change in the way some folk talk about them. They're not disposable objects, they're human beings like the rest of us.

[Mog]

Originally Posted by Rowlf

to me one thing is simple our Government should stop ALL benefits to these so called immigrants. If the main attraction was no longer there they would not be so eager to get here. The EU and UN should lean on the other countries that they come through and make them more responsible. I also think the channel tunnel was the worst thing we ever built it was always going to cause problems at some point.

Whatever makes you think that the Channel Tunnel was going to cause problems. And since when did WE build it.

[Margaret Pilkington]

No they are not disposable objects, but then neither are they the responsibility of the UK.....they are in most cases economic migrants....they want a better life.
It is just that they are going about it in the wrong way.

These families pay the people smugglers goodness knows how much money, they put their lives in the hands of men who care nothing for their welfare and safety.
The answer Does NOT lie in Calais. The answer lies in finding those who exploit these families.
It lies in turning back the boats. Using gunboats if necessary. I think it was Gordon who said that Australia has the right answer....he was right, they do.
They have the right answer in ALL aspects of border control....no question about it!

I think that if you were a lorry driver who had been intimidated, inconvenienced and had your own livelihood threatened then you would (maybe) see the problem in a different light.
These people who want to come to the UK have nothing to contribute, and only see it as a ticket to an easy life paid for by our taxes.

[Accyexplorer]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

These people who want to come to the UK have nothing to contribute, and only see it as a ticket to an easy life paid for by our taxes.

Really? Most of the financial studies I have read in the beano state that immigrants actual add to the well being of an economy,usually arriving educated, fit and ready to work which is more than I can say for the child bearing,pyjama/tracksuit wearing dole dossers I see on a daily basis...just saying.

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

They have the right answer in ALL aspects of border control....no question about it!

I think that if you were a lorry driver who had been intimidated, inconvenienced and had your own livelihood threatened then you would (maybe) see the problem in a different light.
These people who want to come to the UK have nothing to contribute, and only see it as a ticket to an easy life paid for by our taxes.

A very erudite post as always Margaret but a pity you spoiled it by your last sentence.

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

Really? Most of the financial studies I have read in the beano state that immigrants actual add to the well being of an economy,usually arriving educated, fit and ready to work which is more than I can say for the child bearing,pyjama/tracksuit wearing dole dossers I see on a daily basis...just saying.

I see that you are reading the Beano again

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

Really? Most of the financial studies I have read in the beano state that immigrants actual add to the well being of an economy.

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

I see that you are reading the Beano again

The Beano was much more fun when I was a lad!
If you believe a Beano financial study- well, that says it all.

This thread is about the Calais migrant crisis and while controlled immigration does add to our well being, uncontrolled immigration can't do.
I've spent a lot of time with the NHS in the last two years and accept that without the foreign doctors, consultants, nurses, we wouldn't have much of an NHS and most of them were very good(just two exceptions). That's controlled immigration.
It does raise the question- where are all our expensively trained young doctors going? Emigrating for a better life??
When you see the videos of Calais you don't see women, children, fleeing from persecution and starvation.
You see hundreds of fit young men, chasing lorries, shouting about their 'Human Rights', threatening drivers.
These are, to a man, economic migrants who feel they have a right to come to Europe and expect, demand even, that we will give them that better life. At our cost.
When asked 'Why England' so many of them say quite openly 'Because in England we get money and a house, in Italy and France we don't'.
I haven't heard any of them say 'Because I'm a doctor, IT consultant, etc. and your country needs me, I can help you'.
As for the poor devils fleeing the Middle East etc- we spend £12 billion on foreign aid, where does it go? Stupid projects which never get finished, don't work, or aren't wanted, Swiss bank accounts, new mansions and Presidential palaces.
Spend that money wisely and directly on those people in their own countries or in making the camps they fled to better places to live until the madness settles and they can go home.
Make it a condition that their Governments spend it wisely and insist we keep strong controls over it, withdraw all aid if misused.
Used wisely £12 billion could go a long way to giving a 'better life' to an awful lot of people.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

Really? Most of the financial studies I have read in the beano state that immigrants actual add to the well being of an economy,usually arriving educated, fit and ready to work which is more than I can say for the child bearing,pyjama/tracksuit wearing dole dossers I see on a daily basis...just saying.

The financial studies on migrants are those who apply to come to this country through legal means...not these people who are trafficked.
Controlled migration, which is how Australia operates..using a skills points system...taking only the skills which will enrich their workforce is fine...but the uncontrolled migration which has changed the face of many towns and cities is not anything like that...it is an open door policy...come one come all.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by DtheP47

A very erudite post as always Margaret but a pity you spoiled it by your last sentence.

I am sorry that is how you see it, but there you go.
It is my honest opinion. I say it how I see it.

The whole people trafficking situation is wrong, it is exploiting the vulnerable, but it doesn't mean that we have to step in and take them...their first landfall is where they should be seeking asylum or migrant status and if that country is not equipped to cope with them then they should be repatriated to their own land and the country where landfall is possible need to tighten their border security.
By the time these people get to Calais it is too late.