Minimum wage in Prison?! - Page 3

Ianto.W. · 26-02-2007, 13:37

I think they have to be paid the minimum wage when they work outside on jobs, and are allowed to save so much money in preperation for re-settlement on release.

WillowTheWhisp · 26-02-2007, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

Prisoners do not get the minimum wage...I don't know were that notion came from!
I'm certainly not going to start sticking up for convicted criminals but lets get the basic facts.
Only around 15% of the prison population actually do industrial/manufactoring work...maybe another 10% do prison work such as cleaning and cooking... the average wage paid is around £9 per week.

Well I got the notion from a spokesman on the radio this morning who was being interviewed by John Humphries who was equally gobsmacked at the idea of them getting a minimum wage.

If they only get £9 then why didn't the spokesman say that? He was the one who said that by law if they do any manufacturing work etc then they have to be paid the minimum wage, by law. I don't care how many percent do it or how few get the minimum wage, if it's only one it's one too many.

WillowTheWhisp · 26-02-2007, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ianto.W.

I think they have to be paid the minimum wage when they work outside on jobs, and are allowed to save so much money in preperation for re-settlement on release.

So they get paid as much as another worker who has a mortgage and gas, electricity, food bills etc. How can that be right?

Ianto.W. · 26-02-2007, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

So they get paid as much as another worker who has a mortgage and gas, electricity, food bills etc. How can that be right?

I'm not sure willow, but the minnimum wage applies to all workers, letting them keep it is an issue that I am not sure on they may deduct some for their 'keep'.

jambutty · 26-02-2007, 13:51

Interesting debate. Here’s my view on the issue, although I have put this forward before some time ago.

Although sailors in the RN do not stay at sea as long as they used to nonetheless a warship can spend a few weeks at sea without touching land. I spent 2 spells of 3 months each at sea on Cyprus patrol in site of land all the time but never on it except for one occasion to play the Welch Regiment at football and once for an afternoon’s R & R on a beach at Limasol that was guarded by armed soldiers, so it wasn’t too much fun.

So those sailors onboard a warship are to all intents and purposes ‘locked up’, can’t go out to the pub when they want to (unless they happen to be a very good long distance swimmer), can’t have relatives visiting them, have to sleep, eat and work in cramped conditions (and not just nine to five but all hours of the day and night) and for some suffer rough weather and being sea sick and then to cap it all have someone chucking live shells and missiles at them with the odd torpedo snook in.

Compare that to life in a prison!

When a prisoner walks through the prison gates going in s/he should lose all human rights except the HUMANE rights – full stop.

The prisoner should be punished for the crime by spending a portion of the sentence (say one third) being denied all but the basics and being made to work. Whether the pay is derisory or the minimum wage is not the issue with me providing that 90% of it goes to compensate the victims of crime. On reflection a prisoner should receive the minimum wage so that there is more to compensate victims with.

If that period of time is served without any problems and the criminal starts to show genuine remorse for what was done, the next phase (again one third) would bring some ‘extras’, more work (50% to the victim, 30% to be saved as a starting ‘purse’ upon release, 20% for the prisoner to spend in the prison ‘shop’) and rehabilitation. Should the prisoner negotiate that phase without any problems, the final third would be on parole.

For the hard cases who refuse to conform then the FULL SENTENCE would be as the first third.

Under such a regime it is unlikely that anyone but the hard cases will every want to go back, especially if the rehabilitation included some sort of work training and a job to go to when the prisoner is released.

Most places of work are obliged to take on a certain number of disabled people so why not a couple of ex-cons as well.

Mancie · 26-02-2007, 13:52

This is an extract taken from Hansard Parliment written answers 2006

Mr. Sutcliffe: The following table shows the total amount of wages paid to prisoners in public sector prisons over the past five years. This information is not available for private sector prisons. It is a matter for individual contractors how they record their expenditure.

Total amount paid (£)
2005-06
29,614,080

2004-05
28,097,260

2003-04
26,469,070

2002-03
24,520,007

The total amount for each year represents an average weekly wage per prisoner of approximately £8.00.

the full document is here...http://www.publications.parliament.u...61010w0010.htm

Mancie · 26-02-2007, 14:04

I would imagine the only circumstances in which a prisoner would get the minimum wage is if the prisoner was working from an open prison.. and doing an every day job for a private company.. i.e Mcdonalds...then I suppose he/she would get the minimum wage and rigthly so... if they were just paid £9 for a 40hr week at Mcdonalds the only people to profit would be Mcdonalds!...

Of course there is a case to say a high percentage of the prisoners wages could be held back but that is another argument...

WillowTheWhisp · 26-02-2007, 14:11

I see what you're saying about the firms profiting out of prisoners working for them if they didn't pay the going rate - but the prisoners shouldn't end up better off than their co-workers. In fact why the heck are prisoners working outside of prisons anyway? How much freedom do they get in their working day?

Ianto.W. · 26-02-2007, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

I would imagine the only circumstances in which a prisoner would get the minimum wage is if the prisoner was working from an open prison.. and doing an every day job for a private company.. i.e Mcdonalds...then I suppose he/she would get the minimum wage and rigthly so... if they were just paid £9 for a 40hr week at Mcdonalds the only people to profit would be Mcdonalds!...

Of course there is a case to say a high percentage of the prisoners wages could be held back but that is another argument...

That was the point I was trying to make mancie, but I couldn't seem to seperate the the inside from the outside work. A TV program I watched on prisons showed a woman at the end of a drug dealing sentence allowed out to work on a delivery van, she bought a car and had enough to part furnish a flat they found for her on release she had the deposit for the flat as well. Also she was made a criminal bankrupt upon sentence and her previous assets sold, so she basicly got a clean start.

WillowTheWhisp · 26-02-2007, 14:58

It seems like an unfair advantage to me and an insult to those non-criminals struggling to get by.

Ianto.W. · 26-02-2007, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

It seems like an unfair advantage to me and an insult to those non-criminals struggling to get by.

You and me both willow, I was at the colo-rectal clinic the other week a bloke was handcuffed to two prison officers, and a taxi with driver from Preston was waiting for them, when they got out of the cinic they shouted to the taxi driver to come with them to the canteen as it was dinner time. They have no queues to wait in for any dental or medical treatment they may require, as the prison service can be sued for not attending to their needs in a responsible fashion. It cost my wife and I £16.00 for taxi fares how much did the prisoner pay?

Billcat · 26-02-2007, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by entwisi

As for prisoners... they should earn minimum wage for their work and all the money given/shared between the victims of their crimes for the whole period of their detention.

If the prisoners don't get to keep any of the money, why would they work? Seems to me that getting prisoners used to working, and used to being able to get some limited range of items as the result of work, is an important step in attempting to modify their behavior.

Billcat · 26-02-2007, 16:01

[quote=WillowTheWhisp;388626]Then you get people coming along who say that prison isn't a holiday camp and that it's a really hard life for them in there. It's a bloomin harder life for a lot of people out here! [/quote]

If that's the way you feel, then why have you not opted for prison? If what you said above is true, wouldn't that be the rational choice? After all, there are any number of ways you could manage to get "inside!"

Billcat · 26-02-2007, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

Prisoners do not get the minimum wage...I don't know were that notion came from!
I'm certainly not going to start sticking up for convicted criminals but lets get the basic facts.
Only around 15% of the prison population actually do industrial/manufactoring work...maybe another 10% do prison work such as cleaning and cooking... the average wage paid is around £9 per week.

Looks like someone did his homework!

andrewb · 26-02-2007, 16:31

I knew they didn't get paid minimum wage.. im glad Mancie researched it so I didn't have to

They should definatly earn some sort of wage though, they need to have money for when they get out.. if they just go back to living in crappy conditions (since thats where a lot of prisoners come from) then they'd just be back in the same position.