Minimum wage rise - good or bad?

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Graham Hartley

I do as much as I can find the time to do. I think it right to help her, and she appears happy enough - and I am happier to pay her what I do than I would be if I paid her minimum wage.

Do either of you declare her earnings? Is she self employed or do you give her holiday pay? Is there a contract of employment between you? Will she get redundancy pay if you decide to move from the area?

It's pretty simple to give someone £10 an hour for doing a couple of hours a week...I pay a mechanic, a plumber, an electrician to do jobs for me.. and I don't have to be concerned about NI, business overheads, upkeep of premises, utility bills, rates, employment law, paperwork, 5.6 weeks paid holidays, pension schemes, incentives.. yada... yada.. yada..

There is a world of difference and major cost implication between paying someone to push the dyson and clean your crystal chandelier a couple of times a week and employing someone on a full time basis.

[Graham Hartley]

Originally Posted by Guinness

Do either of you declare her earnings? Is she self employed or do you give her holiday pay? Is there a contract of employment between you? Will she get redundancy pay if you decide to move from the area?

It's pretty simple to give someone £10 an hour for doing a couple of hours a week...I pay a mechanic, a plumber, an electrician to do jobs for me.. and I don't have to be concerned about NI, business overheads, upkeep of premises, utility bills, rates, employment law, paperwork, 5.6 weeks paid holidays, pension schemes, incentives.. yada... yada.. yada..

There is a world of difference and major cost implication between paying someone to push the dyson and clean your crystal chandelier a couple of times a week and employing someone on a full time basis.

As you may have read elsewhere, I pay via a third party so am somewhat insulated from the matters you raise. I can only agree that the differences between part-time and full-time employment are as you describe them.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Graham Hartley

Yes, there are many here and elsewhere who can't stand my company and are most forthright in saying so. Such is not the case here. I'm at work when she attends, and I pay her via a third party. Indeed, she was chosen by a third party, such is the risk that misogyny will spoil the enterprise. The help I offer is financial - sorry to confuse.

I don't think you are very fair. It isn't that we do not like your company...you just do not go out of your way to be liked....but this again, is your choice.
You come across as a very curmudgeonly person.
That may be really who you are, or you may have developed this facade as some sort of shield.
I can get along with most folk who are prepared to be a bit courteous and kind....after all, we are all treading a stony uphill road.

Maybe you don't want to be liked, valued by other people. Maybe your attitude is like it or lump it....it isn't an endearing trait.

[Graham Hartley]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I don't think you are very fair. It isn't that we do not like your company...you just do not go out of your way to be liked....but this again, is your choice.
You come across as a very curmudgeonly person.
That may be really who you are, or you may have developed this facade as some sort of shield.
I can get along with most folk who are prepared to be a bit courteous and kind....after all, we are all treading a stony uphill road.

Maybe you don't want to be liked, valued by other people. Maybe your attitude is like it or lump it....it isn't an endearing trait.

Yes, I think your interpretation largely accurate. I have no feeling that to be liked is important. Yet I see that I've attracted a Like - perhaps that was for others in the thread.

[dotti34]

Graham Hartley – am I to take it from your posting 45 that you are a misogynist? I hope I misunderstood – though this might explain why you don’t always come across as intelligently as you would like to appear. Misogyny and intelligence do not belong together, and so say all of us (well, the women at least do).

The third party bit is very interesting and explains a lot….

[dotti34]

Originally Posted by Graham Hartley

Yes, I think your interpretation largely accurate. I have no feeling that to be liked is important. Yet I see that I've attracted a Like - perhaps that was for others in the thread.

You really are a strange man. You must have a very low esteem. You seem to deliberately set out to be disliked, almost wearing this dislike as if it were a badge of honour. A psychiatrist (or psychologist as the case may be) would have a field day with you. I have never yet met anyone who doesn't wish to be liked for something, whether for themselves, for what they have done or are doing - anything....

...but first of all you have to like yourself. Try doing that, G.H. It might open a whole new world for you.

[Graham Hartley]

Originally Posted by dotti34

Graham Hartley – am I to take it from your posting 45 that you are a misogynist? I hope I misunderstood – though this might explain why you don’t always come across as intelligently as you would like to appear. Misogyny and intelligence do not belong together, and so say all of us (well, the women at least do).

The third party bit is very interesting and explains a lot….

I included the word to stir up feelings of any sort. Often, I speak to others with a touch of misandry and misogyny, depending on the audience. It can be said that I dislike most humans, the genders quite equally - though I don't have a way to measure that. If it might confirm some in their view, I am pleased to say that my favourite technical author is Mary L Boas. Thanks for commenting on the way I come across. I use such comments to influence changes in my persona here.

[Graham Hartley]

Aren't we in trouble for straying so far from the trodden thread? Thanks for this evening. One like! It will appear in my dreams.

[Margaret Pilkington]

The forum is like a conversation in general.
Conversations meander, but often get back to the point in some strange way.
Like Dotti, I have never come across anyone who doesn't want to be liked for some part of what they do in their lives.
It is what motivates many to do the things they do....and become good at.
We learn this behaviour as children, and continue it because it makes us feel valued.

If you go out of your way to be disliked then I have to conclude that you are a very sad person(and I mean this in the emotional sense...rather than the insulting sense) and if this is the case I do feel really sorry for you.
You must have missed out on some of life's most wonderful and satisfying experiences.

[dotti34]

I was almost starting to feel sorry for you, Graham H, but after your posting where you say you dislike most humans then I just think you are a sad, lonely man - but, perversely, getting some sort of kick out of being so. You do like to try to turn threads to which you subscribe to be all about Graham Hartley.

Maybe we should leave you be and get back to the subject of the thread.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Graham Hartley

As you may have read elsewhere, I pay via a third party so am somewhat insulated from the matters you raise. I can only agree that the differences between part-time and full-time employment are as you describe them.

So in effect you pay an agent £10 an hour to source a suitable cleaner on your behalf.

Who is responsible for cleaning materials, overalls, gloves, etc.. Does this come out of the £10 or do you come home to notes like 'no domestos left' and 'mop head broke'? Do you provide step ladders so that she can reach the curtain rail or the top shelf in the cupboard without stretching? Is the electrical equipment she uses PAT tested? Is there a suitable fire escape plan in place? Do you have a lone worker risk assessment in place?

I'm not really looking for answers, just trying to show that the minimum wage cost to a small employer is already around the £9 an hour mark when you take overheads and legal compliance into account. That £9 rises significantly if you take training into account especially if this training needs to be refreshed annually.

This is why the only way to increase the minimum take home wage is via the tax threshold, unless you want more unemployment, fewer businesses or the rise of unscrupulous agencies.

[Boeing Guy]

Graham......

Originally Posted by Graham Hartley

I do as much as I can find the time to do. I think it right to help her, and she appears happy enough - and I am happier to pay her what I do than I would be if I paid her minimum wage.

But you then contradict yourself a few posts later on......

Originally Posted by Graham Hartley

As you may have read elsewhere, I pay via a third party so am somewhat insulated from the matters you raise. I can only agree that the differences between part-time and full-time employment are as you describe them.

So you pay an agency £10.00 an hour. She won't get that, I would have thought she will get minimum wage for that, after all an agency has to make a profit.
You really have no idea what she gets paid and your ramblings are getting tiresome.

Originally Posted by Graham Hartley

Yes, I think your interpretation largely accurate. I have no feeling that to be liked is important. Yet I see that I've attracted a Like - perhaps that was for others in the thread.

I have now removed the Like I gave, simply because you contradict yourself, your £10 per hour is not a good deed but the going rate from the agency.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Graham Hartley

Yes, there are many here and elsewhere who can't stand my company and are most forthright in saying so. Such is not the case here. I'm at work when she attends, and I pay her via a third party. Indeed, she was chosen by a third party, such is the risk that misogyny will spoil the enterprise. The help I offer is financial - sorry to confuse.

Originally Posted by dotti34

Graham Hartley – am I to take it from your posting 45 that you are a misogynist?

[QUOTE=Boeing Guy;1091258


So you pay an agency £10.00 an hour. She won't get that, I would have thought she will get minimum wage for that, after all an agency has to make a profit.
You really have no idea what she gets paid and your ramblings are getting tiresome.


I have now removed the Like I gave, simply because you contradict yourself, your £10 per hour is not a good deed but the going rate from the agency.[/QUOTE]

Oh, come on dotti and BG. You're being hard on the man!
After all, he does have a woman cleaner, which for a misogynist is quite a sacrifice. But then, as a misandrist his choice is rather limited.
All right, he had to divorce himself from actually choosing a woman and he doesn't know(or appear to care) how much the agency actually pay her.
But he does make sure she only comes when he's at work- now there's an act of kindness!
There's something good in all of us, although in Graham Hartleys case it's proving difficult to find. Perhaps he's the exception?

[walkinman221]

Originally Posted by Less

Allow me a copy and paste I'm sure it will save walkinman from repeating himself.

Thanks Less i wouldn't want Mr Hartley to think my education lacking , by replying to yet another post of which i have no comprehension. After all Mr Hartleys position is obviously one of lofty proportions he has a FEMALE cleaner for gods sake how can we poor mortals live with that.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by walkinman221

After all Mr Hartleys position is obviously one of lofty proportions he has a FEMALE cleaner for gods sake how can we poor mortals live with that.

That's one thing about Accyweb, walkinman.

Now and again we ordinary folk get to see how the other half live-and think.

Worrying, isn't it?