morallity and employment

[Less]

Originally Posted by susie123

I do find it difficult however to condone the attitude of those who, having been out of work for whatever reason for x number of years, keep on producing children for the state to support and then demand a bigger house for the family while they all sit at home watching sky tv with a fag in their hand. Yes I now that's a stereotype but I guess the benefits system has made this a lifestyle choice for them while making it hard for singles and couples who want to work.

Yes, it is a stereotype, yes, these people exist but they are a very small minority, it is however easier to lump all the unemployed together with this minority because as I have said before, it is far easier to use the unemployed as scapegoats than it is to invest in real jobs, morally wrong but oh boy, how the smug people among those lucky enough to have never been unemployed love to jump on the bandwagon and put the blame on the unfortunate.

[mobertol]

Originally Posted by sugarmouse0707

If you don't look after your diet (even if you do eat animal products) you can end up deficient. It's easy to not be deficient in anything on a vegan diet, but you do have to know what you are doing particularly when your body is used to certain things that it is no longer getting from the same sources. It was a conscious choice, due to morality. The meat industry=the dairy industry. Animals die at the hands of both and I am an animal lover hence my decision.

No, vegans don't wear leather, use dairy or consume eggs.

You aren't being polemic, however you are making assumptions. 'Such a difficult...'
It isn't difficult for me, at all. It's second nature.

An assumption that most would probably agree with -it is not an easy choice to follow through to the end with absolute scruple, so well done if you find it easy -I would not.

So many of the products we use regularly do have some animal content so it's almost impossible to be completely vegan in a certain sense.
Just a simple example: a book - some of the inks may have an animal origin as well as the glues used in bindings.

[Sunflower49]

I do find it very easy. I think if you feel strongly enough about it, then it becomes second nature. It is an assumption though.
And I agree, I would go so far as to say depending on definitions , it is almost impossible to be 100% vegan. But I do my absolute best and that's all I am capable of

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by churchfcrules

but there is the arguement that through you compliance it perpetuates the "thing" that you feel you have to do.

if everyone took a moral stance, then there wouldnt be anyone else to do it

4 vegetarians, starving to death, have a pig.........

Other people would do it for money.......money seems to transcend morals.
You might argue that I also did it for money, but my input for my wage was across a far wider range...what I mean by that is, the person who would do this thing for money would do only that...and with little care for the outcome.
I cannot say more.

[churchfcrules]

i seem to remember something about Martin Mcguiness, he was claiming benefits, although he had been elected as a british mp, but refused to take up the post on political grounds, but still continued to claim benefits

and gerry adams was also claiming benefits, as "unemployed barman"

should you be allowed to refuse work and continue claiming benefits, and where do we draw the line?
religious belief? political beliefs? moral beliefs?, are these things not the same?

and how far would thinks have to go,before we "ditched" our morals, who was it that said"we are only nine meals from anarchy'

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Less

Do they? or where they just hijacked by religions to make them (the religions) work better?

I brought my children up without any religious guidance, but they do have morals.

Less, there have been religions from the beginning of time...I'm not just talking about Christianity here, but pagan religions that preceded it...and without recognising it they have insidiously permeated into our lives over the millenia...even in the homes where no religion is practised, the children will be taught right from wrong.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

the children will be taught right from wrong.

Right and Wrong are not religious.

If anything, religion is the opposite of Right and wrong, how many Religious leaders of all faiths will encourage bigotry and murder in the name of their God?

Compare that to the number of people brought up without 'religion' that can see when our 'betters' are just as evil as any other amoral twisted being?

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by sugarmouse0707

I do find it very easy. I think if you feel strongly enough about it, then it becomes second nature. It is an assumption though.
And I agree, I would go so far as to say depending on definitions , it is almost impossible to be 100% vegan. But I do my absolute best and that's all I am capable of

As an omnivore I have no qualms about eating animal flesh.

For purely selfish health reasons I care about how the animal lived before I ate it.
So I eat 'free range and organic', because a happy healthy animal, killed humanely, is more nutritious.

(now on to the 'new age' bit)
I believe that plants have sensory feelings too.

Experimentation - Plants Have Feelings Too

So if your only reason for being vegan is your concern for animal welfare, the I suggest you try
breatharianism

[churchfcrules]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Less, there have been religions from the beginning of time...I'm not just talking about Christianity here, but pagan religions that preceded it...and without recognising it they have insidiously permeated into our lives over the millenia...even in the homes where no religion is practised, the children will be taught right from wrong.

i think we all belong to a "social morality", but then i also think we have our own "personal morality"

the social one for things that affect the rest of society, and then those that would prick at your own guilt.

the social ones are without doubt shaped historically by religion, but initially where they not formed by personal, sort of chicken and egg i suppose

[Sunflower49]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

As an omnivore I have no qualms about eating animal flesh.

For purely selfish health reasons I care about how the animal lived before I ate it.
So I eat 'free range and organic', because a happy healthy animal, killed humanely, is more nutritious.

(now on to the 'new age' bit)
I believe that plants have sensory feelings too.

Experimentation - Plants Have Feelings Too

So if your only reason for being vegan is your concern for animal welfare, the I suggest you try
breatharianism

It's not my only reason but it is my main reason.Sentient is not the same as having sensory ability-I have seen that article before as I do research whenever I get the time and am lucky enough to know some vegans with far more knowledge than I. But as we ARE actually an animal, and not a plant, I am very much more okay with eating plants than I am eating other animals.
Thank you for the suggestion though

[Margaret Pilkington]

that is it in a nutshell CFCR.......Less you miss my point entirely.
Men do (in the name of religion) things that they cannot do any other way...it isn't what the religion promotes, but mans interpretation of the religion.

Even social conscience is based(way back in the mists of time) in some religion or other...not necessarily Christianity.
I'm not promoting religion...just offering my opinions.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by sugarmouse0707

But as we ARE actually an animal, and not a plant,

Are yeh sure? theres one or two cabbages on here.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

that is it in a nutshell CFCR.......Less you miss my point entirely.
Men do (in the name of religion) things that they cannot do any other way...it isn't what the religion promotes, but mans interpretation of the religion.

Even social conscience is based(way back in the mists of time) in some religion or other...not necessarily Christianity.
I'm not promoting religion...just offering my opinions.

Perhaps it isn't that I've missed your point, perhaps it is that I've ignored your point because I consider it flawed?

[Margaret Pilkington]

OK then.....if that is how you want to see it......I'm fine with that.

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by sugarmouse0707

It's not my only reason but it is my main reason.Sentient is not the same as having sensory ability-I have seen that article before as I do research whenever I get the time and am lucky enough to know some vegans with far more knowledge than I. But as we ARE actually an animal, and not a plant, I am very much more okay with eating plants than I am eating other animals.
Thank you for the suggestion though

Just because you are unable to perceive what the plant experiences doesn't mean that it doesn't have 'conciousness'.