mr britcliffe

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Less

Educate the masses before you punish them!

Why?
Do you think some people don't know it is wrong to drop litter?
I think everyone knows it is wrong and they do it anyway.

I don't want my tax money being spent telling people it is wrong to litter. I want them fining for doing it and the fine money used to clear up the mess. Better still the people who litter should be forced to do the cleaning up.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Considering that the council had a £1.8 million budget deficit when the Tories took control

I think people tend to forget that when they moan about spending cuts. You recover £1.8 million without something losing out.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by Less

And that is your answer?

You would rather cry about me teasing you for being a student rather than reply to something, about which after all, you, asked the question:-



Believe it or not I happen to be a floating voter, I have never tied myself to one political party because I believe we all change some of our view points, two things have me thinking tonight however, one was a Labour representative that put a leaflet through my door but couldn't be arsed to close my gate! (proof of a caring party), the other is a blinkered young tory that instead of talking common sense hides behind 'facts & figures' that we all know can be manipulated either to suit us or to be dismissed as inaccurate.

Now can I ask you to come out from behind your smoke screen, stop pretending I've upset the inner student and reply to what I posted in reply to you?

I have replied, have I not? the post above where you said I hadn't replied?

[MikeSz]

Food for thought when considering council tax :

"About how Council Tax is spent

In the tax year 2007/2008, 72.7% of the Council Tax bill is collected on behalf of Lancashire County Council, Hyndburn Borough Council receives 14.5%, 8.8% goes to Lancashire Police Authority and 4% goes to Lancashire Fire Authority.

So for a band D property paying £1438.88 Council Tax;

• £1046.20 goes to Lancashire County Council
• £209.29 goes to Hyndburn Borough Council
• £125.95 goes to Lancashire Police Authority
• £57.44 goes to Lancashire Fire Authority

"

(taken from HBC website)

Many people forget that unlike Blackburn with Darwen, which is unitary, HBC falls under Lancashire County Council - which takes the vast majority of your council tax.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by MikeSz

Food for thought when considering council tax :

"About how Council Tax is spent

In the tax year 2007/2008, 72.7% of the Council Tax bill is collected on behalf of Lancashire County Council, Hyndburn Borough Council receives 14.5%, 8.8% goes to Lancashire Police Authority and 4% goes to Lancashire Fire Authority.

So for a band D property paying £1438.88 Council Tax;

• £1046.20 goes to Lancashire County Council
• £209.29 goes to Hyndburn Borough Council
• £125.95 goes to Lancashire Police Authority
• £57.44 goes to Lancashire Fire Authority

"

(taken from HBC website)

Many people forget that unlike Blackburn with Darwen, which is unitary, HBC falls under Lancashire County Council - which takes the vast majority of your council tax.

Thanks for pointing that out before I had a chance Mike. On the same observer page Graham Jones states that the Tories have increased Council Tax by 45% since taking conrol, spot on Graham, but what he doesn't tell you is that in that same period LABOUR CONTROLLED LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL have increased their share by 95%. As mike has said we live in a two tier authority, with finances being split (for easy recKoning 80% LCC 20% HBC), lets just say that 8 years ago the council tax was £500 Band A, (this is just a round figure to explain) 400 going to LCC £100 to HBC, 95% rise at county would take there share to £780 whilst HBC share would go to £145, now who is costing you more Labour or Conservative. Has Neil said in a later post when you are left with a £1.8 million black hole something has to give, and according to the Audit Commision Hyndburn has turn their fortunes around from poor five years ago to excellant today, and they are the independant body which control council

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

according to the Audit Commision Hyndburn has turn their fortunes around from poor five years ago to excellant today, and they are the independant body which control council

If polled I wonder how many of the people actually living in Hyndburn would rate the quality of services provided by the council as being 'excellent'?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

If polled I wonder how many of the people actually living in Hyndburn would rate the quality of services provided by the council as being 'excellent'?

You can't do anything until your finances are in order, the thing is Rindi for all his posturing Cllr Jones couldn't even put an alternative budget forward, at the budget meeting, seems he has problems with is calculator, I tend not the blame a machine I tend to think its the clown thats putting the information in that causes the porblem.

[MikeSz]

And here's another important point that is often overlooked - from what I understand, HBC had a debt of about £42m 8 years ago. As far as I know, that debt has now been reduced to about £14 million since. To put that in context, try embarking on a a massive saving mission, whilst still ensuring you're paying for everything that you need, whilst ensuring that additional money gets invested, whilst having someone else above you largely controlling your purse strings. No easy feat. Its very easy to criticise so try thinking how that would equate into your own income and spending patterns before dismissing the Council.

For a region like Hyndburn, good, sensible, cost effective local government is surely all you need and I think that is exactly what is being delivered.

[garinda]

Admittedly I didn't live in Hyndburn the last time we had a Labour controlled council, though I did used to visit every month or so.

What is apparent to anyone with half a brain cell is that the area is now more run down than ten years ago.

Under a Tory run council we have seen the death of the outside market, once one of the busiest in the northwest.

At a cost of many millions of pounds the bus station was moved to accommodate the new market, and suprise suprise the council are planning on relocating it again, again at more cost.

We've seen the Conservative run council allow more new retail premises to be built in the area, many of them now stood empty, while long established businesses have gone to the wall, or relocated elsewhere. The economic retail boom that the country has experienced, certainly never made it to Hyndburn.

We may have pretty floral towers, but Accrington as a town is dieing on it's backside because of the woeful inability of the council to govern for the good of the people and the area.

[MikeSz]

I think an area being 'run down' (and even the definition of 'run down' could be extended to include pretty much anything) is down to a number of factors and its a bit simplistic to try and blame the council. It depends on what you're talking about - if its a building who owns it, why its 'run down' in the first place and what it would take to fix it or deal with it if it cant be fixed. Of course things can always be done better, and that’s why debates are important rather than simply apportioning blame.

I think some important steps have been taken – parking is still free in Hyndburn, and that’s something that local businesses have made clear they want.

Unfortunately however, you cant force people to shop at a market – I travel the country quite a lot and regrettably lots of markets, some traditionally large ones are now struggling. I know Wolverhampton’s, despite having a large open market square, and being a statute defined market town, now only has about 1/5th of its market. Economic and commercial forces are large, complex and intertwined and are changing the way we shop. We also have changing work/life patterns which effect when and where people shop. I accept you may not like HBC and I’m not asking you to change you’re mind, just realise that you cant really blame HBC for people not shopping at the market anymore.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by MikeSz

Unfortunately however, you cant force people to shop at a market

No you can't, but before the council in it's wisdom decided at some considerable cost to interfere with the market, people chose to shop there, as did the market traders who chose to sell there, because it was busy and vibrant, something it certainly isn't now. I've been to less depressing markets in poverty stricken African countries.

Personally I'd be afraid to let the present shower organise a jumble sale, nevermind be in charge of a multi-million pound budget, and town planning.

[blazey]

Why are people blaming the Tories for pound shops?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by blazey

Why are people blaming the Tories for pound shops?

Because for those of us old enough to remember, Accrington used to be a thriving town, before the council involved themselves with the costly 'regeneration' of the town centre, and followed a policy of building even more retail premises, whilst we already had a plethora of empty shops.

Empty shops that because of high council tax rates are now only attractive to charity, and cut price shops.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by garinda

Because for those of us old enough to remember, Accrington used to be a thriving town, before the council involved themselves with the costly 'regeneration' of the town centre.

Empty shops that because of high council tax rates are now only attractive to charity, and cut price shops.

you got it in 1 rindy, have a couple of friends that had thriving small businesses in the town centre, who gave up the ghost, n that was the final nail in their coffin.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

Because for those of us old enough to remember, Accrington used to be a thriving town, before the council involved themselves with the costly 'regeneration' of the town centre, and followed a policy of building even more retail premises, whilst we already had a plethora of empty shops.

Empty shops that because of high council tax rates are now only attractive to charity, and cut price shops.

Sorry am I understanding this correctly? The reason our town has gone to pot is because the local council set tax too high on shops, therefore only the pound and charity shops have the economic might to stay open?