mr britcliffe

[cashman]

no i don't think yer understanding it correctly. nor do i think ya want too.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by cashman

no i don't think yer understanding it correctly. nor do i think ya want too.

How very constructive. I do want to understand it, I don't see how pound shops and charity shops are the only ones able to stay in our town where as other retailers can't, because of apparently high tax.

Please can you explain it to me?

[jaysay]

I also think that you have to go back to the days of George Slynn to see when the rot set in when they were selling anything they could get their hands on, the buses, Arndale centre, the bus depot, the land on Eastgate, and other asset all ploughed into the Globe Centre. It was also in that period that the marked started to go kaput, I once remember writting to the Obs stating that the market had become like a derelict wild west town, the only thing missing were the tumble weeds blowing about and that was in the mid nineties

[lindsay ormerod]

I thought the charity shops got cheaper leases?
It certainly used to work that way, and the pound shops are the only ones making money !

[andrewb]

I've got my hands on an Observer and just read the columns. I have no idea how Graham Jones has the nerve to say some of those things!

"How did council tax rise by 45% and nobody did anything"

Well firstly it's nice to see he used the correct figure. However how is this a bad thing? Have you looked at how much council tax rises have been on average throughout the rest of the country? Over 100%! We have a 45% rise, how is this BAD?

Every year except the last one or two the Labour group on council have proposed HIGHER council tax increases than the Conservatives! Complete hypocrisy! I suspect the only reason they've done it differently this year is for short term political gain.

"The Daily Telegraph put Hyndburn Borough Council as the most expensive council in Britain yet local Conservatives are sure they will retain power easily."

I have explained this over and over in several threads here, he has clearly failed to take any notice, and using the fact that people will take the figure at face value to gain politically. When you actually look at how the Telegraph got to that figure it nowhere near represents Hyndburn. If you're reading this Graham I'm happy to meet up with you and discuss it.

"..we still have a poor performing, high Council Tax council."

As I've said before our council tax is much less than a lot of other people are paying. The Labour national government have put HUGE pressures on local councils by delegating more responsibility without fully funding it. Council tax has to go up to deal with these things, but it appears that our council has done well to keep the increases relatively small.

"more dictatorship, or a change of direction, free speech and democracy"

Does he seriously realise what he's writing? I have no quarrel with what he's saying about increasing democracy. I think its a good thing he wants greater democracy with more people contributing, but how can anyone suggest that a Conservative council is currently a dictatorship, that we don't have free speech? Those words are reserved for North Korea not Accrington.

Then finally he gos on to talk about how Blackburn Council have introduced free sports, yet makes the comparison between Blackburn and Hyndburn. How can you make this comparison? Blackburn with Darwen is a unitary authority, they get ALL the money in council tax. Our local council get around 20% with around 80% going to Lancashire County Council!

[Boeing Guy]

Cyfr, mate its a bit like the Global Warming / ID Card etc scheme.
"My mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts!", comes to mind

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Cyfr

Sorry am I understanding this correctly? The reason our town has gone to pot is because the local council set tax too high on shops, therefore only the pound and charity shops have the economic might to stay open?

It's supply and demand.

If you already have a plentiful stock of empty retail premises, as a council it isn't really wise to build a whole lot more, which this council has, with plans for even more behind Scaitcliffe House.

They are also responsible for setting the business rates tax.

It doesn't take the greatest economic brain in the land to work out that the council would get more income from occupied rather than empty shops, something we now have a plethora of.

It was only last year Britcliffe was boasting in the press of new businesses that had opened in the area. Well I can name three on his list that have since closed.

I remember you posted that you were also opposed to the council giving planning permission to open a town centre Tesco, partly I presume because you know what effect it would have on existing town centre traders, your father included.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Cyfr

I've got my hands on an Observer and just read the columns. I have no idea how Graham Jones has the nerve to say some of those things!

"How did council tax rise by 45% and nobody did anything"

Well firstly it's nice to see he used the correct figure. However how is this a bad thing? Have you looked at how much council tax rises have been on average throughout the rest of the country? Over 100%! We have a 45% rise, how is this BAD?

Every year except the last one or two the Labour group on council have proposed HIGHER council tax increases than the Conservatives! Complete hypocrisy! I suspect the only reason they've done it differently this year is for short term political gain.

"The Daily Telegraph put Hyndburn Borough Council as the most expensive council in Britain yet local Conservatives are sure they will retain power easily."

I have explained this over and over in several threads here, he has clearly failed to take any notice, and using the fact that people will take the figure at face value to gain politically. When you actually look at how the Telegraph got to that figure it nowhere near represents Hyndburn. If you're reading this Graham I'm happy to meet up with you and discuss it.

"..we still have a poor performing, high Council Tax council."

As I've said before our council tax is much less than a lot of other people are paying. The Labour national government have put HUGE pressures on local councils by delegating more responsibility without fully funding it. Council tax has to go up to deal with these things, but it appears that our council has done well to keep the increases relatively small.

"more dictatorship, or a change of direction, free speech and democracy"

Does he seriously realise what he's writing? I have no quarrel with what he's saying about increasing democracy. I think its a good thing he wants greater democracy with more people contributing, but how can anyone suggest that a Conservative council is currently a dictatorship, that we don't have free speech? Those words are reserved for North Korea not Accrington.

Then finally he gos on to talk about how Blackburn Council have introduced free sports, yet makes the comparison between Blackburn and Hyndburn. How can you make this comparison? Blackburn with Darwen is a unitary authority, they get ALL the money in council tax. Our local council get around 20% with around 80% going to Lancashire County Council!

All that time spent beavering away in the library, tapping away on your calculator, and Graham Jones remains unconvinced, and publishes the facts as found by the Daily Telegraph.

[Lilly]

I don't think the council can take all the blame for the rubbish selection of shops we have.

There may be some of us who would spend our money in an Accrington branch of Next or River Island but it seems we are in the minority.

Store chains do their research and check out the buying habits of the population before setting up in a town.

Sadly, they will be able to see that they wouldn't last long in Accrington because so many people want the dirt cheap stuff.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Lilly

I don't think the council can take all the blame for the rubbish selection of shops we have.

But they must take the blame for continuing to build even more retail premises when there are already so many empty shops.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

It's supply and demand.

If you already have a plentiful stock of empty retail premises, as a council it isn't really wise to build a whole lot more, which this council has, with plans for even more behind Scaitcliffe House.

They are also responsible for setting the business rates tax.

It doesn't take the greatest economic brain in the land to work out that the council would get more income from occupied rather than empty shops, something we now have a plethora of.

It was only last year Britcliffe was boasting in the press of new businesses that had opened in the area. Well I can name three on his list that have since closed.

I remember you posted that you were also opposed to the council giving planning permission to open a town centre Tesco, partly I presume because you know what effect it would have on existing town centre traders, your father included.

Yes my question was why does apparently high tax result in only charity and pound shops? I understand the concept of not being able to tax shops if they're empty

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Cyfr

Yes my question was why does apparently high tax result in only charity and pound shops? I understand the concept of not being able to tax shops if they're empty

Sorry, I thought Lindsay had already answered that, but here it is in fuller detail.

Charity shops benefit from exemption from corporation tax on profits, 80% mandatory rate relief and a zero V.A.T. rating on the sale of donated goods. A further 20% rate relief is available at the discretion of local authorities.

Mass volume sales stores, aka pound shops, have a relatively high turnover, and that results in them being one of only a few type of businesses that can afford the expensive rent and rates that the owners of the retail spaces charge, the owners our council gave planning permission to.

Fairly straight forward really.

[onlyme]

Originally Posted by Lilly

I don't think the council can take all the blame for the rubbish selection of shops we have.

There may be some of us who would spend our money in an Accrington branch of Next or River Island but it seems we are in the minority.

Store chains do their research and check out the buying habits of the population before setting up in a town.

Sadly, they will be able to see that they wouldn't last long in Accrington because so many people want the dirt cheap stuff.

Exactly Lilly

And I dont think its because of local government that we have a shoddy selection of retail shops.

Lets face it, Accrington used to be a busy town with its own industry and business. As the global marketplace has opened up, manufacturing is cheaper to do abroad, and the money has leaked out of the area.

How many people remember the closure of Rist wires when that was relocated? Approx 600 people out of work, in a town without the jobs that they can fall into.

I think the current government has more fault than local for the problems in the area. If there werent so much of a North/South divide, the local area would improve no end.

Also, going back to the initial posts, I think the fact that the new health centre on Blackburn Road was open for less than a week before the windows were smashed in shows that gentle persuasion, or even a pride in the area is not happenning

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

Sorry, I thought Lindsay had already answered that, but here it is in fuller detail.

Charity shops benefit from exemption from corporation tax on profits, 80% mandatory rate relief and a zero V.A.T. rating on the sale of donated goods. A further 20% rate relief is available at the discretion of local authorities.

Mass volume sales stores, aka pound shops, have a relatively high turnover, and that results in them being one of only a few type of businesses that can afford the expensive rent and rates that the owners of the retail spaces charge, the owners our council gave planning permission to.

Fairly straight forward really.

So it's to do with demographic. As pound stores are much more popular in Accrington than a more expensive retailer.

Can you please let me have the figures for the expensive rent/rates you talk of?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by onlyme

the money has leaked out of the area.

It may not feel like it but even here in Hyndburn we've never had such a large disposable income.

Thirty five years ago the majority of people in Hyndburn didn't own a car. Now we have two car households, and many people, even those on benefits, have homes filled with the latest flat screened televisions, and all manor of electrical equipment.

Sadly much of this income is being spent in Hyndburn.