Muhammad: Who is He!? - Page 2

Bazf · 26-02-2006, 13:50

http://shamash.org/trb/judaism.html

http://www.vatican.va/

http://www.patriarchate.org/

http://www.anabaptists.org/

http://www.baptist.org.uk/

http://www.adventist.org/

http://www.ciolek.com/WWWVL-Buddhism.html

Heres a few so you can have a fair comparison, chose your own or trade in to a better one.

http://www.atheistalliance.org/ heres mine in case you think I may be biased towards any single one.

Phylum · 26-02-2006, 15:33

Thought this relevant to this thread. Hear hear!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4752804.stm

carolef · 26-02-2006, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phylum

Thought this relevant to this thread. Hear hear!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4752804.stm

a perfect reply phylum

Busman747 · 26-02-2006, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by mani

nice link but its a bit wasted here

too many ignorant ppl

Mani, you disappoint me. I have always looked upon you to give the views of the moderate Muslim population and now you decide to slag off most if not all your fellow accyweb memberswith your sweeping comments.

Try turning this around! Your comment was put on a forum that has a membership made up mostly of "white" people - but if you were white and addressed a forum made up of mostly Middle east/Asian members and called them ignorant, there would be an uproar and possible threats on your life as this comment would be deemed as racist and anti-muslim!!!

Until very recently I believed that the majority of Muslims in this country were moderate and wanted to integrate themselves and their families into the ways of the traditional British system. The Irish have done it, the Poles, we have a large contingent of Ukrainians and Afro-Carribean! If you want religion to enter this equation, we have many Jews, Catholics and there are representatives from just about every religious order in the world - - so what makes Muslims so high and mighty that they can slag off everyone except themselves?

Have you read about Newcastle University? They are considering suspending lectures for 2 hours EVERY Friday afternoon between 12 and 2pm for ALL 17,281 students - - because the 700 Muslims want to pray (jumah) during these hours! If they are successful, and it looks as if they will be, this will spread to ALL Universities and what is next? SCHOOLS?? YOUR WORK PLACE??

Returning to "moderates" I have read today that the "Muslim Association of Britain" which promotes itself as the "moderate" voice of Britain includes a former commander of "Hamas" which is responsible for dozens of suicide bombings in Israel. The association has also been described in parliament as the British wing of the Muslim Brotherhood, the banned Egyptian group whose former members include Osama Bin Laden! So much for moderates!

I originated just outside of Luton and remember well, the case of the 13 year old girl that insisted on wearing her "jilbab" at school! She is now 17 and the case reopens with that bit** Cherry Blair (no spelling mistake, she gives me the pip!) earning £££ thousands talking about "prejudice" and "human rights" I find it ironic that Shabina Begums parents, 2 elder sisters, brother and friends were all against her fighting this in court but - her eldest brother Sharweb 23 pushed her from the start to take this as far as she could. Sharweb is a member of Hizb-ut-Tahrir who's aim is the creation of an international Islamic state ruled by extremist Sharia law - AND HE'S GOT THE PRIME MINISTERS WIFE TO HELP HIM!! It could only happen in this country!

Margaret P. quoted an Australian politician in this thread which I also read and totally agreed with, to remind you, this is what he said:

Recently, Peter Costello (the Minister for the Treasury in Australia) drew an interesting analogy......he said that when entering a mosque it is a sign of respect to remove your shoes......if you feel uncomfortable with that, then you don't enter the mosque...he went on to say that Australia (a host country to many muslims) has a similar concept....if you don't like the way the people live.... then you don't enter.

This is my view exactly! Mani, I have no problem with you being Muslim, BUT! YOU fit your religion into the ways of the people in this country like everyone else, if your religion don't fit, then MOVE! And DON'T call me ignorant without explanation!

WillowTheWhisp · 26-02-2006, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by mani

nice link but its a bit wasted here

too many ignorant ppl

Unfortunately Mani such a statement makes you look like the ignorant one. Wouldn't it have been better to welcome a discussion and maybe help to correct misunderstandings than dismiss us out of hand in such a way?

I have often come across people who have strange misconceptions about the church I belong to, and have welcomed the chance to discuss some aspects with them and correct false ideas where appropriate.

Many of us try to understand and to see things from different points of view, but lately it does feel like we are being force-fed a point of view which we either don't want or don't understand. The case of the university students is a classic example. Those 700 students applied for university places knowing full well what the hours were. They are not the majority and yet now the majority must change their hours to suite the minority. I cannot imagine this happening in a muslim country if Christian students were to demand it.

It seems to me that the majority population of this country bends over backwards to please one minority section and even when we do so we are still regarded by some like yourself as too ignorant to even discuss something with, and if we complain we are called racist.

Well, at last you've now let us know what you think of us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phylum

Thought this relevant to this thread. Hear hear!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4752804.stm

That's an excellent link and I wholeheartedly agree with everything it says.

garinda · 26-02-2006, 22:59

Mani does seem to be the one we expect to put forward the 'Muslim' point of view, and perhaps that is a lttle unfair.

It still doesn't excuse his comments though. Arguing your point, and showing the biggots they are wrong, is the best way of dealing with things I find.

I have three friends on here with strong religous views, and whose church's views don't agree with my lifestyle I suspect, that doesn't stop them being kind, showing friendship, and respecting me.

Tolerance breeds tolerance.

WillowTheWhisp · 27-02-2006, 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Mani does seem to be the one we expect to put forward the 'Muslim' point of view, and perhaps that is a lttle unfair.

I don't really expect Mani to be able to speak on behalf of all muslims any more than I would attempt to speak on behalf of all LDS let alone all Christians but it seems like he's the only muslim member we have these days and it's interesting to get his (muslim) point of view on things.

I have, until now, had the idea that most people are much more alike than they are different and that although there may be extremists in different walks of life that they are in the minority and that the rest of us are quite happy to get along with each other and live & let live.

I like the fact that children are taught basic information about many religions in school and my children come home with gems of knowledge that lead me to want to find out more. As people have been discussing Islam recently, not particulalrly on this message board but in many places due to the furore following the objections to those cartoons I've found myself wanting to know more about some things which we are being told are "facts" and which, on further investigation, seem not to be quite so factual. I was apalled to learn that the cartoons had been embellished and made worse than the originals before being shown in certain muslim countries with the claim that they were the originals. Why would anyone do such a thing? That was perhaps the first time I had ever had any anti-muslim views.

I have enjoyed visiting muslim countries, I have admired the beauty of the mosques and respected the reverence of the people. I have even felt that at times as a Latter-day Saint I had more in common with a devout muslim than with a nominal Christian. Last year on safari in the Sahara we met up with a guy from Accrington and our "Accy origins" gave us something in common in a foreign country whilst he was a muslim and I am a Christian - yet one thing we both laughed about was how Higher Antley Mosque had little in common with the beautiful buildings there. (Yes, I have been inside HA mosque as the board of school governors were invited there due to many of our children belonging to that one.)

Sadly I found myself reading mani's post on this thread, which dismissed the idea of any of us learning more about Mohammed, with disappointment and suspicion that perhaps others feel the same. Perhaps the person who I feel I have something in common with really regards me as not worthy of having an opinion. Perhaps all the muslims I think are friendly and just like me are really looking down on us and think that we are ignorant and beneath them. Perhaps they do not want equality with people they regard as inferior, perhaps they are merely paying lip service to tolerance. Perhaps Mani's post shows the reality that I have been trying to tell others they are wrong about. Perhaps I'm the one who has been the fool after all. I'd like to think not but sadly the one post dismissing us as too ignorant to learn about Mohammed and Islam has had this effect.

I've read, on another forum, people criticising Mohammed for the fact that he had several wives and in particular for the fact that one of them was very young. I've seen similar derogatory postings about the LDS prophets Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and so I wanted to know more from the muslim viewpoint, which led me to read more and I've been looking for more unbiased information to read. To that end I welcomed the opening post in this thread. I have read much of the link and will come back and read more. I hope to be able to regain my view that the majority of muslims do not regard all non-muslims as ignorant, but unfortunately Mani's post has left me with severe doubts now since he previously came across as someone who would communicate with the rest of us on an equal level rather than looking down on us as he now appears to have been doing.

I previously couldn't understand intollerant people, but now I think perhaps I know where it comes from. I have made comments myself that I think we try harder to please Asian immigrants in recent years and do more to fit in with their way of life, the languages, etc than we ever have done with any other immigrant group in the past, yet the more we do the more is expected - like the university thing where the hours will be changed to suite the minority. Far from being intollerant perhaps we have been far too tollerant and it's only led to more problems.

I'm waffling more than usual now so I'd better stop.

entwisi · 27-02-2006, 08:36

Can I offer a hand of steady here, perhaps we should wait for mani to reply. We have all made the odd post in haste and repented at leisure. Lets see if this was one of those throwaway comments that he now regrets.

If it is then I would accept that a mistake was made and move on, if he feels it is still the case then fair enough he will have made himself a target for people to hit back at.

So Mani, whats it to be?

mani · 27-02-2006, 20:24

*LOL* well if nothing it has garnished an interesting response - i've been away in london for the weekend so hence the lack of reply - i've never been one to shy away from an answer...

i guess the wording was wrong and too generalistic - garinda touched on a certain thing i guess i'm feelin right now where it seems that i'm the one fighting the 5 million. i'm open and liberal minded i've enjoyed drinkin in company of ppl adn drank myself so the last thing i am is uber-religious. in the other thread i made a post where i said i was stayin out of any islamic/asian threads from now on cuz i am gettin sick and tired of tryna make ppl understand on here that the actions of the few do not represent the many. adn yet still i feel its not gettin thru and its frustrating. i'm sure those ppl who make sweeping generalisations about lds folk wud come the closest to understanding this.

its now as i said got to the point where i've honestly had enough of some people on here who feel that islam is some great monster creeping up. if they cant b arsed to understand it i cant b arsed to explain it.

to those who are offended sorry. it wasnt meant to generalise.

Margaret Pilkington · 27-02-2006, 20:48

Good comeback Mani......hope your weekend was a good one!

garinda · 27-02-2006, 21:08

Welcome back Mani.

I could think of some other members on here who should perhaps be the unelected spokespersons for all kinds of catogories, but most of them are too rude to print.

Tinkerbelle · 27-02-2006, 21:31

Cheers Mani, point taken I suppose it must be frustrating at times. I'm free from any religious (can't find a suitable word so) 'inclinations', so as others have said, just read the original post with curiosity, your post just shocked me a little lol!