Multiculteral Britain - A No,No?

[garinda]

I've got two close friends.

Tina the Gordie, and Frances the Glaswegian.

The fact that Tina is Jewish and Frances is Chinese is incidental.

Both come from familes that have been fully integrated into their respective communities for well over a hundred years, and means they consider British through and through, yet they are still pround of their cultural identity. They just see it as secondary to who they actually are.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by K-P

I was wondering why poeple are getting upset at the thought when it doesnt even effect them..

Personally I am 100% for multi-culturalism in any country. I don't believe any human being should be restricted based on skin colour or birth place.

I was told many years ago that if this country threw out all the none english and the rest of the world sent back the english.. we wouldnt be able to cope. we wouldn't have enough room.

I've no idea why people are getting upset ... just as I have no real clear idea of what "multi-culturism" actually is ... other than a buzz word, casually thrown around, with the assumption that it is somehow "good", and that to question it is to identify oneself as somehow reactionary at best, and bigotted at worst.

There is a good argument to make that Great Britain has always been multi-cultural. Unless someone wants to argue that the Scots, the Welsh, the Irish, and all the regions (north, south, midlands, Yorkshire, Lancashire, the north east etc. etc.) don't have distinct cultures. Perhaps we should not be using this almost meaningless term, and be talking about how an already diverse society should adjust to immigrants. Should immigrants from, say Poland, come to England and continue to be uniquely Polish? Should they be allowed to take all that England (or Britain) has to offer without making any adjustments to conform to what is already established, and has been for centuries?

In Canada, we don't really have that problem ... we are all immigrants (or, according to my First Nations' friends, settlers) ... our culture is multi-culture. Our Govenor General is an Haitian immigrant ... the latest Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan was a Lebanese immigrant; his family arrived in Canada only nine years ago. Quebec is officially a "distinct society" within Canada. We need immigrants in order to grow ... you guys don't. There has always been a lot of talk here about a "Canadian identity": in other words, there is an on-going struggle to define ourselves as a nation. Brits don't have that problem, or shouldn't have, they already have a national identity, one which has developed over the centuries.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Eric

I've no idea why people are getting upset ... just as I have no real clear idea of what "multi-culturism" actually is ... other than a buzz word, casually thrown around, with the assumption that it is somehow "good", and that to question it is to identify oneself as somehow reactionary at best, and bigotted at worst.

There is a good argument to make that Great Britain has always been multi-cultural. Unless someone wants to argue that the Scots, the Welsh, the Irish, and all the regions (north, south, midlands, Yorkshire, Lancashire, the north east etc. etc.) don't have distinct cultures. Perhaps we should not be using this almost meaningless term, and be talking about how an already diverse society should adjust to immigrants. Should immigrants from, say Poland, come to England and continue to be uniquely Polish? Should they be allowed to take all that England (or Britain) has to offer without making any adjustments to conform to what is already established, and has been for centuries?

In Canada, we don't really have that problem ... we are all immigrants (or, according to my First Nations' friends, settlers) ... our culture is multi-culture. Our Govenor General is an Haitian immigrant ... the latest Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan was a Lebanese immigrant; his family arrived in Canada only nine years ago. Quebec is officially a "distinct society" within Canada. We need immigrants in order to grow ... you guys don't. There has always been a lot of talk here about a "Canadian identity": in other words, there is an on-going struggle to define ourselves as a nation. Brits don't have that problem, or shouldn't have, they already have a national identity, one which has developed over the centuries.

I agree, multi-culturalism is a meaningless term when used in this context.

You could have two old dears of the same genetic background. One an opera attending Dowager, and the other a bingo playing char lady. They aren't going to share much of a cultural identity.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by garinda

I agree, multi-culturalism is a meaningless term when used in this context.

You could have two old dears of the same genetic background. One an opera attending Dowager, and the other a bingo playing char lady. They aren't going to share much of a cultural identity.

I think that what we are discovering is that if one looks at buzz words and phrases closely enough, we find that they are essentially meaningless; and that they are no substiute for serious analyses and rational solutions ... they are terms used by people too lazy to think. Problem is that these terms, as they stagger aimlessly around, aquire a lot of freight which they are not really capable of carrying. For some reason, "Animal Farm" comes to mind.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Eric

I think that what we are discovering is that if one looks at buzz words and phrases closely enough, we find that they are essentially meaningless; and that they are no substiute for serious analyses and rational solutions ... they are terms used by people too lazy to think. Problem is that these terms, as they stagger aimlessly around, aquire a lot of freight which they are not really capable of carrying. For some reason, "Animal Farm" comes to mind.

I think in this case the phrase should be multi-ethnic, rather than cultural, but that's probably deemed as offensive, but it certainly makes more sense to me.

[Taggy]

Multiculteralism can only work if the people who come to live here, like and respect us for who we are, and what we stand for. If they basically want to dominate, oppress or change us towards their beliefs or lifestyle ideals as indoctrined from their own countries, then it quite simply cannot ever work. We can all be different, and have varrying thoughts and values, however we have to value our Country and what it stands for. The more diverse we get, the more we stand to lose a common national identity, its not rocket science is it ?. As we think about the welcome home that certain sections of our community gave some of our soldiers recently, one begins to question what things would be like here if we get to a close on 50/50 ratio of Indigenous British and other Ethnic groups. Would these people fight for Britain for example, particularily if it came to be against countries they or their relatives formerly came from. If they would'nt then where would that leave us as a nation. Very very vunerable is the answer really. I always recall the former Cricketer and Pakistani politician Imran Khan saying during a debate, that he hopes the West wake up to whats ahead, and not to underestimate the power and influence of Islam. I took what he said quite lightly at the time. These days i'm thinking about it more and more!

Best Regards - Taggy

[Eric]

Originally Posted by garinda

I think in this case the phrase should be multi-ethnic, rather than cultural, but that's probably deemed as offensive, but it certainly makes more sense to me.

At least you stopped short of "multi-racial"

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Taggy

Multiculteralism can only work if the people who come to live here, like and respect us for who we are, and what we stand for. If they basically want to dominate, oppress or change us towards their beliefs or lifestyle ideals as indoctrined from their own countries, then it quite simply cannot ever work. We can all be different, and have varrying thoughts and values, however we have to value our Country and what it stands for. The more diverse we get, the more we stand to lose a common national identity, its not rocket science is it ?. As we think about the welcome home that certain sections of our community gave some of our soldiers recently, one begins to question what things would be like here if we get to a close on 50/50 ratio of Indigenous British and other Ethnic groups. Would these people fight for Britain for example, particularily if it came to be against countries they or their relatives formerly came from. If they would'nt then where would that leave us as a nation. Very very vunerable is the answer really. I always recall the former Cricketer and Pakistani politician Imran Khan saying during a debate, that he hopes the West wake up to whats ahead, and not to underestimate the power and influence of Islam. I took what he said quite lightly at the time. These days i'm thinking about it more and more!

Best Regards - Taggy

So this really isn't about multi-culturalism is it. It's about Islam, which in no way shape or form is "ethnic". And it's not really a question of "we can all be different"; "can" doesn't come into it; for we are all different. Rather than pussy foot around, why not come out with it and discuss, openly, the threat that Islam poses to the whole Western World, not only Britiain?

Concerning what Imran Khan said, I happen to agree with him; and I have made that point several times on this forum, particularly arguing that there are significant and probably irreconcilable differences in the ways that western societies developed and those forces which created Isalmic states.

[West Ender]

I don't make a habit of repeating myself but, on this occasion, I will say again there is a vast difference between the enhancement diverse cultures can bring to an established way of life and the positive reinforcement of "seperateness". Multiculturalism, as promoted in this country, breeds isolationism among creeds/factions. Emphasis should be placed on working for the common good of the whole country before any other consideration.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by West Ender

I don't make a habit of repeating myself

Say that again.

[West Ender]

Originally Posted by cashman

Say that again.

That again.

[MargaretR]

All religions have evil side effects - but Islam seems to have more than most.
It is about time that the truth about Roswell was revealed so that people will realise that all religions are primitive myths

[garinda]

Originally Posted by West Ender

I don't make a habit of repeating myself but, on this occasion, I will say again there is a vast difference between the enhancement diverse cultures can bring to an established way of life and the positive reinforcement of "seperateness". Multiculturalism, as promoted in this country, breeds isolationism among creeds/factions. Emphasis should be placed on working for the common good of the whole country before any other consideration.

Very true, as was what you posted earlier, about the Chinese and Jewish people who've happily been assimilated into this country's fabric for many a long year, with little or no resentment from the indigenous population, and yet they've retained their own cultural identities...without a load of interference from the busy body brigade.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by garinda

Very true, as was what you posted earlier, about the Chinese and Jewish people who've happily been assimilated into this country's fabric for many a long year, with little or no resentment from the indigenous population, and yet they've retained their own cultural identities...without a load of interference from the busy body brigade.

And the jews made it into the mainstream with everything stacked against them ... York, 1190, comes to mind ....

[Mancie]

Possibly the largest multi-cultural nation in the world is the USA..they have had problems but more past than present..Nazi Germany showed us what the alternatives are...and the saying "when in Rome" don't seem to apply to the British ...the British abroad have kept thier own culture...apart from Tarzan we did'nt suddenly take up wearing leapard skins and shrinking heads when we invaded Africa!