Needless Cruelty - Page 4

black_flights · 21-12-2004, 18:20

No because 'he' fly's falcons and the falcons kill. But humans have morals. I have a problem with the way we hunt foxes, it could be more controlled. We are needlessy killing them for fun. I believe farmers have a right to protect their livestock. also everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

WillowTheWhisp · 21-12-2004, 18:23

Absolutely agree regarding opinions.

However, as shooting foxes is cruel, what do you suggest as an alternative? I'm genuinely open to suggestions.

black_flights · 21-12-2004, 18:33

As I said I think it should be more controlled. can you inform me as to whether you need a licence to go out and hunt foxes? It's the suffering I have a problem with and the people using is a sport and entertainment.

WillowTheWhisp · 21-12-2004, 18:44

From the point of view of the suffering I think the method we are trying to ban is the one that causes the least suffering. It is animal killing animal (hound killing fox) which again is part of nature. How far removed is that from Staggeringman's friend with the falcon? The hounds don't eat the fox. That seems to be the main difference. But the fox is killed because foxes are killers.

At one time we had mice in the house (a long story resulting from an empty house next door in which food had been left by previous occupants.) As much as I don't like killing little furry things and I got a human trap and released the first couple of dozen up beyond Green Haworth, there came a time when "clobber the things with a heavy object" became preferable to them dying slowly and painfully from poisoning. It just had to be done or my kitchen would ahve been a no go area and I wouldn't have wanted to eat or sleep in the house.

Mice are vermin, even though we had pet hamsters at the time. Foxes are pretty and they have nice fluffy tails and they are a beautiful colour and I can really admire the looks of a fox but at the end of the day if it came down to a fox or my chickens I would class fox as vermin along with the mice.

black_flights · 21-12-2004, 18:49

yes I think I would to. But I think the statement 'foxes are killed because they are killer' is a bold one. We are killers so does that mean an eye for an eye. The hunt ks just an excuse to kill them for fun not pest control. I have no quarms about a farmer shooting a fox because it is trying kill his chickens.

WillowTheWhisp · 21-12-2004, 19:16

I do have qualms about him shooting the fox because the fox is more likely to suffer that way. More often than not he doesn't catch them in the act. He just finds the carnage the following morning.

staggeringman · 21-12-2004, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by black_flights

personally I think fox hunting is barbaric. I despise animal cruelty, however I am not a vegetarian although I used to be. I don't care about people eating meat to survive or whatever. What I am concerned with is the fact that the killing is for pleasure. Most of the people who hunt foxes have absolutely respect for the value of life. And a point that I like to point out is that who was put on this planet first animals or man? (according to the bible, but I don't believe in god) Fox hunting is not neccessity

Who is going to keep the foxes under control???As willow said there are animals that need to be controlled,would you not mind that you have a load of rats running around your dinning room table while you have your tea(doubt it)the people that live and work in our(there )countryside, control the animals as they see fit,and if it means chasing foxes with dogs so be it!Did you complain to the council when they put the netting over the public buildings in town,OH the pigeons havent anywhere to roost(the flying rats are vermin)foxes are vermin,rabbits are vermin.You cant tell your grandma how to suck eggs!Same goes to the people of the countryside that have been brought up with that way of life for hundreds of years.You could say that there are other ways to control them,poison them and when they die other animals are birds will feed on them and they will die as well and so on......and on .....and on,until they are all extinct.

staggeringman · 21-12-2004, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

In the natural world the falcon would kill those animals to feed its young - how can it be wrong? What would they suggest as an alternative? Half a pound of best mince?

It depends if it was done halal ...he...hee.In the natural world willow dogs would still kill foxes!!

staggeringman · 21-12-2004, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by black_flights

As I said I think it should be more controlled. can you inform me as to whether you need a licence to go out and hunt foxes? It's the suffering I have a problem with and the people using is a sport and entertainment.

When a dog catches a fox it grabs it with the scruff of the neck and tosses it in the air snapping its neck imeadiately no suffering there now is there black flights!Its only when you see the rest of the pack catch up and start to rip the ALREADY dead fox in pieces that you think its cruel..its already dead.This about the licence is what the government wants to bring in.

WillowTheWhisp · 21-12-2004, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by staggeringman

In the natural world willow dogs would still kill foxes!!

Precisely my point Staggers.

Slightly off topic but why the heck did Australia end up being overrun by rabbits? No natural predators there that's why - and look at what they did to "solve" it !!!!! Nature isn't always beautiful and twee but it is natural.

Acrylic-bob · 22-12-2004, 08:54

I find it appalling that people who have little or no understanding of country life should feel themselves qualified to pontificate and legislate on the practices employed to keep vermin in check. If we continue to pander to the delicate sensibilities of the vote-rich suburban middle classes we will loose much that makes this country what it is. What is it going to be next, Equal rights for rats! MRSA has feelings too! ?? All this is just fashionable hypocracy, spouted by people who have too little with which to occupy themselves.

WillowTheWhisp · 22-12-2004, 09:34

I'm reminded of a news item not so long ago where a couple who had recently moved to the countryside were complaining that the farmer had sheep in the field next to them and the baa-ing woke them up!

They are sheep. That's what they do. If the humans don't like it they shouldn't have bought a house next to a farm.

Darby · 22-12-2004, 10:21

Baaaaaaaaaaa.......................Baaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa....................Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Oink..Oink..Oink

Well its' better than the traffic noise!!

entwisi · 22-12-2004, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I'm reminded of a news item not so long ago where a couple who had recently moved to the countryside were complaining that the farmer had sheep in the field next to them and the baa-ing woke them up!

They are sheep. That's what they do. If the humans don't like it they shouldn't have bought a house next to a farm.

I once worked in a restaurant where a lady who had waited ages for a window table complained that the sight of ickle lambs running around the field outside was putting here off her roast lamb dinner!

Some people need shooting.

Hey maybe thats the answer, bring us down to the same level!

lettie · 22-12-2004, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by entwisi

I once worked in a restaurant where a lady who had waited ages for a window table complained that the sight of ickle lambs running around the field outside was putting here off her roast lamb dinner!

Some people need shooting.

Hey maybe thats the answer, bring us down to the same level!

That's a good one Entwisi. Wouldn't it be great if people who work with members of the public and provide services were actually allowed to tell some people how stupid they are and not be sacked for it. I would love to. Believe me, some of the complaints we get in the NHS about minor things beggar belief. I can give examples, but there are too many to bore everybody with.