new concession for terror bill.

[jaysay]

I've taken the trouble to read most of the overnight posts on this thread, I think I may go back to bed for an hour to recuperate. Now that his bill has gone through can anybody tell me if under the preset 28 day legislation wheather anybody has ever been rleased without charge because the time ran out I actually thought that this would be the main story on news programs this morning but I was wrong, its no use passing any new legislation if we are going to leave sensative documents concerning terrorists on a commuter train, it rather defeats the object really doesnt it

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by andrewb

Some members are interested in pursing attacks based on party lines, ones which are completely unjustified. Throwing accusations around

Classic irony

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Rosencrantz

Cards on the table, 90% of what I've said here is satire and sarcasm, so please tell me if you seriously consider 42 days of needless social harm, government distrust and potential for massive governmental abuse worth your goddamn time. Read my summary again and respond - ask yourself if it's worth selling our kid's futures down the river just so we can lock up anyone who disagrees with us. I guarantee that if this law passes it will be abused in the future.

And quite frankly, if you're not satisfied with what you're saying you haven't thought about your own opinion enough.

It appears unlike you I do believe every word I say, and as for self satisfaction I post what I think, and unlike you I don't expect to be patted on the head, and told what a clever boy I am.

If you actually believe what you say, that's it's own satisfaction. The fact is you've voiced your opinion. If people chose to ignore it, or disagree, personally I couldn't care less.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by andrewb

In reflection, what an absolute, utter waste of my time this has been. A lot of the members are not interested in having an informed, intelligent, discussion. No, in contrast they want one driven by emotion. Driven by rubbish that those of us who seek to defend liberty, who seek to take pragmatic approaches to legislation, are somehow putting our national defence, no lets use the word, lives, of women and children at risk.

Some members are interested in pursing attacks based on party lines, ones which are completely unjustified. Throwing accusations around.

I have never seen such ignorance before. Not because people agree or disagree with me, everyone is entitled to take their side, but because of the method of doing so. The method of provocation, the method of playing dumb, the method of winding the opposition up by hawking on with even more emotive lines, avoiding any logical discussion. Some members know only too well there is not an ounce, not one trace, of evidence to support their views, but yet they continue because emotive language is popular, but it is far from right. We only need to look to America, where the population will happily give away any freedoms they wish, all the government need to do is repeat the words 9/11 until they have every single one of them bowing down on their knees.

I legitimately mention Muslims, because they are the majority of people affected by this legislation. I get shouted down for it, because the Act doesn't aim to single anybody out. Well just take a few minutes to sit in reality and think, who is actually affected the most by this legislation? It does not take a brain surgeon to work out that it is completely relevant, that is why it was debated today within the House.

I have not a shadow of a doubt, that if the people being ignorant over issues here, were detained themselves, for innocent purposes, as the majority of the people convicted under this legislation have been. They would not be arguing for the indefinite detention of suspects and sleep walking into a big brother state where we nod away our freedoms whenever the government tell us we should.

That is it. I am out.

Nice resignation speech.

Good to see you aren't a quitter.

[Tealeaf]

Originally Posted by garinda

Nice resignation speech.

Good to see you aren't a quitter.

Now, now.....stop winding up the children. You know what they're like when they get all excited.

[Benipete]

Originally Posted by blazey

That would just show majority of forum users, not majority of people in this country in general!

Silly man.

I agree that there should be more than mere suspicion, but sometimes you have to follow gut instincts and detain someone even if you have nothing solid other than a first impression.

I find this issue hard to decide upon because I don't agree with the original Act as such in the first place, so I'm pulling out of the debate on it too until I have more knowledge on it.

FIRST IMPRESSION is not a lot to go on.

[Benipete]

programs this morning but I was wrong, its no use passing any new legislation if we are going to leave sensative documents concerning terrorists on a commuter train, it rather defeats the object really doesnt it
Had to laugh myself when I heard that bit of news last night,makes you wonder how many more blunders this goverment will preside over.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by garinda

Nice resignation speech.

Good to see you aren't a quitter.

now rindy, thats the sign of a wanbee M.P.- telling porkies. ready fer the real job.

[blazey]

You realise this Bill has still got to go through the House of Lords and there is no way it is going to be left as it is, so I think you all might as well find something else to complain about for a while!

You're right, first impressions aren't a lot to go off and I don't agree with it generally but there are probably instances where it is reasonable, and seen as I haven't read the full Bill passed yesterday I can't really comment much more without making assumptions.

[cashman]

yep know its to go through "Lords" thats were it will probably fall i think unfortunatly, majority of tory dead heads n buffoons in yon.

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by cashman

yep know its to go through "Lords" thats were it will probably fall i think unfortunatly, majority of tory dead heads n buffoons in yon.

The Lords cannot prevent a bill from becoming law, just delay its progress.

This whole issue has been an exercise in Brown trying to establish who is boss and he would have failed and had to pay the penalty for failure except that he managed to twist enough arms to gain support. Nice form of democracy!

Brown is now denying that he made any concessions to the DUP or other Labour MP’s to get his way. So the offer of compensation of £3,000 per day if no charges are brought by day 42 isn’t a concession?

And now David Davis, the shadow Home Secretary, has resigned not just as Home Secretary but also as an MP to force a by-election in his Haltemprice and Howden constituency. He will stand on a platform of the new 42 days issue.

[Acrylic-bob]

So now we all know the price that this government puts on our priceless freedom; it is £1.2 billion! This is the amount that Gordon Brown agreed, despite his protestations to the contrary, to pay for the DUP's compliance in last night's vote. It is the amount that will be realised from the sale of ministry of defence bases in Northern Ireland, which was to have been retained by Whitehall but will now go to Stormont. And for what? As Blazey pointed out earlier, this bill will not get through the Lords. The government might try invoking the Parliament Act to force it through but strictly speaking since this is a security issue they can't legally do that. Then, of course, there is the good old European Court of Human Rights, I am sure that they will have more than a page or two to say on the matter.

There is no way that this bill will ever get on to the statute book. That being the case you have to ask why the government are so determined that it will succeed. The answer is plain - what would have happened to Gordon Brown had the vote not gone the governments way? This is pointless legislation pushed through parliament with little thought simply in order to prop up a lame duck administration and a failed Prime Minister.

Good on David Davis - I hope he is returned to Parliament with an unassailable majority!

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

yep know its to go through "Lords" thats were it will probably fall i think unfortunatly, majority of tory dead heads n buffoons in yon.

Well cashy there was a Labour dead head on BBC breakfast this morning who was, along with Lord Falconer, Tony's former room mate, going to lead the labour rebellion in the lords, Oh and by the way the Tores don't have a majority in the Lords now, well knot like the good old days

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

So now we all know the price that this government puts on our priceless freedom; it is £1.2 billion! This is the amount that Gordon Brown agreed, despite his protestations to the contrary, to pay for the DUP's compliance in last night's vote. It is the amount that will be realised from the sale of ministry of defence bases in Northern Ireland, which was to have been retained by Whitehall but will now go to Stormont. And for what? As Blazey pointed out earlier, this bill will not get through the Lords. The government might try invoking the Parliament Act to force it through but strictly speaking since this is a security issue they can't legally do that. Then, of course, there is the good old European Court of Human Rights, I am sure that they will have more than a page or two to say on the matter.

There is no way that this bill will ever get on to the statute book. That being the case you have to ask why the government are so determined that it will succeed. The answer is plain - what would have happened to Gordon Brown had the vote not gone the governments way? This is pointless legislation pushed through parliament with little thought simply in order to prop up a lame duck administration and a failed Prime Minister.

Good on David Davis - I hope he is returned to Parliament with an unassailable majority!

Nice one Bob, now it shows everybody what lying cheating Jock strap he really is

[blazey]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

So now we all know the price that this government puts on our priceless freedom; it is £1.2 billion! This is the amount that Gordon Brown agreed, despite his protestations to the contrary, to pay for the DUP's compliance in last night's vote. It is the amount that will be realised from the sale of ministry of defence bases in Northern Ireland, which was to have been retained by Whitehall but will now go to Stormont. And for what? As Blazey pointed out earlier, this bill will not get through the Lords. The government might try invoking the Parliament Act to force it through but strictly speaking since this is a security issue they can't legally do that. Then, of course, there is the good old European Court of Human Rights, I am sure that they will have more than a page or two to say on the matter.

There is no way that this bill will ever get on to the statute book. That being the case you have to ask why the government are so determined that it will succeed. The answer is plain - what would have happened to Gordon Brown had the vote not gone the governments way? This is pointless legislation pushed through parliament with little thought simply in order to prop up a lame duck administration and a failed Prime Minister.

Good on David Davis - I hope he is returned to Parliament with an unassailable majority!

Why do you think the powers under the Parliament Act 1911 aren't going to be used? If the government want this bill passed, they'll pass it. Your only hope is the Queen, and as a hereditary monarch you have about as much chance of me becoming the next prime minister than the queen refusing it.

Yes the Lords can delay it, alter it, move it around a bit, but chances are it'll be passed with the same principles unless someone can say it is in breach of human rights or whatever, and this is highly doubtful