News topic re doctor's appointments and targets

[Busman747]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

WOW! I needed to see GP following a hospital referal (from yet someone else other than my own GP) and had a letter from them asking me to make an appointment so off I duly trotted for the queueing up outside experience and even then I had to see a doctor I'd never set eyes on in my life before, who funnily enough turned out to be Busman's doctor (someone Busman has never actually seen himself!)

THAT was a very interesting morning! Willow and I joined the queue just after 8am and was about sixteenth in the queue. I was quite excited because I had been trying to get an appointment by phone for a couple of months without success but couldn't take the time off work at 8am because of my school run but this was a school holiday.....

The doors opened and very soon we were at the front of the queue. Being the gentleman, I ushered Willow to speak to the receptionist first and heard the words "9 o'clock" At that moment, another receptionist called me over .......and told me that a doctor would see me at 10;30!! I exclaimed in despair that my fiance (pointing to Willow as she was still being dealt with) has just got an appointment for 9am.

"Oh, We've had phone calls since then" she says "The closest appointment is now 10;30"

Now THAT is efficiency!! How many phone calls can you take in 30 seconds?

In defence of the doctors at Peel House, on the ONE occasion in 15 months(yes, THIS appointment) I have managed to see a doctor, he was exceptionally good but what worries me is that I am the kind of person that would try to fit in an appointment around my work rather than take time off. The reason for seeing him was for a mole that was seemingly becoming aggressive. They soon cut it off and told me that it wasn't malignant..........but if it had been?

Likewise, if I started having chest pains, at what point would I say to my boss, "sorry, can't do the school run"? As an over 50, I get all sorts of aches and pains but I have been brought up to regard work as a priority and in the past I have always had the option of making a doctors appointment at a suitable time.

I love life Oop north but I find it so hard to get my head around the lack of funding here! Back in Bedfordshire, I would phone at 9am, get an appointment for 10am....arrive at 9:50, sit in comfortable leather seating with expensive mags to read and be called in at 9:55.

Living in Accy will probably be the death of me (but not for a while hopefully Willow)

[Sara]

Like the writer earlier on i too am at Myrtle House, and i find all the staff not just the doctors fantastic. Remember years ago though when my son need a finger lancing (no practice nurse in them days) we were sent to AVH to have it done, the doctor said to me that he was to squemish to do it. It still makes me smile now.

[g78]

Peel House is awful for appointments. I live about 1 minute away from it and even I struggle to get appointments. One time I needed to see my doctor for a review on some medication I was on. The tablets were running out and I had a few days left of them. So I trudged off to Peel House, and queued up in the cold with the rest of the people, by the time I reached the desk all appointments with my doctor were taken. Since I needed to see him specifically I said I would try the next day. It took me 4 attempts to book an appointment, 4 times I queued in the morning only to be told there was no chance. I even had to go a day without my medication, and when I told the receptionist this she just kind of looked dazed and told me there was nothing she could do.

Lets hope when this new 'super-doctors' opens up and Peel House closes, we shall have better service.

[removal-man]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Tony Blair has been heckled by a woman complaining that she cannot make a doctor's appointment longer than 48 hours in advance due to the government targets that all patients should be seen within 48 hours and Tony Blair is gobsmacked because he had no idea that people couldn't make advance appointments!

He should take a look at Peel House. 48 hours isn't in it. You have to ring up or present yourself at the surgery on the day itself and hope you manage to get in! If you're lucky you get an appointment that day but that day only and it's probably going to be with a nurse who will then decide if you need to see a doctor.

The rest who are unlucky have to go away and try again the next day, and the next and so on. 48 hours? We'd think it a luxury if we could book an appointment 24 hours in advance let alone 48.

i have a doctor in rishton. making a appointment is no problem.you can ring at 9 and usually get in the same day. i have just spent 5 days in blackburn royal for a very bad wound to my foot. without going into to much detail, they have made a hole from the underside of my foot to the top of my little toe. this needs a dressing inserting right through the wound every two days without fail. so far the nurse has turned out at 9.30am on a sunday, 9.30am on a saturday, and is going to turn out at 9.30am on bank holiday monday. you cannot fault the service that is provided either at the doctors surgery or the aftercare provided at the medical centre. i think you are simply in the wrong area or the wrong practice.

[chav1]

rishton dosnt have that many people in it so the doctors are naturaly more available


peel house has a reputation in both the hospitals and NHS direct for incompetant management of appoitments and there are many cases of people going without medication because they cant get to see a doctor

the problem is where else can you go all the doctors in accy are full

[cashman]

another thing that can cause problems at peel house is repeat prescriptions, you have to put the repeat in a box- then wait 2 days to collect your prescription(unless its weekend or bank holidays,then its longer,anyone on regular medication who gets too low with their tablets etc,due to forgetfulness or has bin away a few days,will then have to make an unnecessary appointment with the docter(if they can) to get the medication they need.this to me is crazy and a waste of resorces-but theres nowt else they can do if they need it.thats nowt to do with bad doctors its just RANK bad administration.

[chav1]

i think peel houses system where you see the nurse so she can refer you to a doctor if she thinks you need one is dangerous

granted cut fingers and dressings are one thing but should a nurse be deciding if you need a doctor or not

doctors are trained to pick up on things and to look for certain symtoms and as far as i know a nurse isnt or they would be called doctors and not nurses

i think its wrong that that reponsability is put on the nurses and they should only be used for taking blood, changing dressings and other nurse dutys

i do not think they should be diagnosing patients

granted this system probably roots out people who take up and waste appointments because they have a runny nose but unless a person has been through the same training as a doctor they shouldnt be deciding if people are ill enough or not to see a doctor

personaly i think peel house has too many patients on its books and i hope when they move to the new premisses i hope they get more new doctors and slow down the intake of new patients

at the end of the day its all about money though and as far as i know a doctor gets money for every prescription they write so more patients = more money i suppose

[THOTH]

Originally Posted by cashman

another thing that can cause problems at peel house is repeat prescriptions, you have to put the repeat in a box- then wait 2 days to collect your prescription(unless its weekend or bank holidays,then its longer,anyone on regular medication who gets too low with their tablets etc,due to forgetfulness or has bin away a few days,

Here we go again -- moan moan moan --- whinge whinge whinge --- oh dear -- it is not MY fault that I am without tablets blah blah blah---.

What`s wrong with people today ?

Can they not organise themselves ?

[lettie]

Originally Posted by chav1

i think peel houses system where you see the nurse so she can refer you to a doctor if she thinks you need one is dangerous

granted cut fingers and dressings are one thing but should a nurse be deciding if you need a doctor or not

doctors are trained to pick up on things and to look for certain symtoms and as far as i know a nurse isnt or they would be called doctors and not nurses

i think its wrong that that reponsability is put on the nurses and they should only be used for taking blood, changing dressings and other nurse dutys

i do not think they should be diagnosing patients

granted this system probably roots out people who take up and waste appointments because they have a runny nose but unless a person has been through the same training as a doctor they shouldnt be deciding if people are ill enough or not to see a doctor

Dear oh dear Chav.... You really don't have the foggiest idea what a nurses duties and training entail do you?
Nurses are also trained to look for certain symptoms and pick up on them. Nurses participate in the training of medical students. Nurses in hospitals are there to stop the junior doctors accidentally killing people, which has happened to me and several of my colleagues in the past. Most senior nurses and midwives are perfectly able to diagnose what is wrong with someone with great accuracy and guess what, we aren't even paid for it.... Talk about cheap labour. Most nurses working in primary healthcare (GP surgeries) or specialist areas have further qualifications to enable them to take clients from the doctors (cheap labour again). Furthermore our code of professional conduct forbids us from undertaking duties for which we are not trained or are not competent to do. So the next time you are assessed by a nurse whether it be in a surgery or in A&E be aware that he or she is trained to do that job and probably hundreds of other roles which we have been trained to do in order to take work off the junior doctors. Also be aware that we do not get paid extra for doing these roles.

[mez]

I totally agree with you lettie, if it hadn't be for the nurse at my surgery i wouldn't be on the treatment im on now, which has helped me know end up, im in the proccess of seeing her again cos shes great, & i feel nurses are more willing to listen to you & grasp quicker what you are telling them, i will support the nurses 100%.

[chav1]

ime glad nurses are trained up to such high standards but a close friend of mine was bounced around peel houses nurses and the stupid appointments system for over 2 years only to find that he had cancer which his specialist said should have been picked up on a lot earlier because the symptoms he was showing were clearly showing somthing was serioulsy wrong yet he wasnt even examined in all those years once because he was told he was just suffering from constipation and sent on his merry way

only after spending a week in agony and blood pouring from his bum was he allowed to see his doctor who immidiatly sent him to a specialist

turns out he had a cancerous tumour and it nearly killed him because he was left undiagnosed for so long as the tumour apparently would settle down for a while and start up again every few months or so but because he believed what he was told it was he just did as he was told and went away thinking he was ok apart from a bit of constipation

if he had been able to see his own doctor his medical records would have shown the same problem reoccuring every few months and investigations could have started a lot sooner as the doctor would be familiar with his case but because he was only seen by the nurses who put his problems down to constipation he was sent away with the advice to eat more fiber or buy some senacot

yes nurses are under appreciated and yes they are good at what they do but please leave the diagnosing to real doctors

i am in no way taking away what nurses do the ones on my cancer ward were very good at been nurses despite been over worked

like i said before the doctors are fine but in my friends case the nurses should not have been diagnosing him as they clearly got it wrong

it probbaly seems that i am calling nurses incompitant which is not the case

i am merely stating my opinion that the doctors are the ones who are paid to diagnose , treat , write prescriptions and do referals to specialists so they should be the only people allowed to do the diagnosing

i too have had cancer and seen the nurses who didnt spot it but the doctor did so please forgive me if i also stick to seeing the doctors

i would highy recomend that if you are not happy with a nurses diagnosis to insist on seeing a doctor just to be safe because if i had relied on the nurses diagnosis i would be dead

[lettie]

It seems that your friend should have asked for a second opinion from the nurse, who is then obliged to try and get an appointment with the doctor. For the record, doctors also mis-diagnose with alarming frequency. Nurses do diagnose these days as we are unable to prescribe without diagnosing and many nurses are now trained to prescribe and do their own clinics. The nurses working on hospital wards are constrained by the system as there are always doctors on call, so they have no need to prescribe or diagnose to the same extent.
Nurses working in the community, often at surgeries or alone doing home visits do need to be able to both diagnose and prescribe these days.

The government decided that they would encourage nurses and midwives to take on extended roles in order to ease tha pressure on junior doctors and cut their working hours. Due to pressure from the medical profession about long hours and the high suicide rate amongst doctors, the government decided that they could train up nurses to do certain medical procedures and pay them no extra for doing it. Gone are the days when nurses are seen as Hattie Jaques and Barbara Windsor type characters bowing to doctors needs. By taking on extended roles for no extra pay we have shot ourselves in the foot, because when pay scales are now decided the extended roles are no longer classed as such, they are classed as nursing duties and not remunerated.

My position is slightly different than that of my nursing colleagues in that traditional midwifery required expert knowledge of every aspect of normal pregnancy and childbirth and midwives are the lead professionals in caring for pregnant women. We have direct access to consultants and hospitals if an abnormality in pregnancy should arise. Sadly even we are finding our roles expanding to fill the gaps in the medical profession and some of our interventions are becoming more and more geared to abnormal, again for no extra pay. We are also expected to be our own receptionists, fill the gaps in social services dealing with child protection issues and drug issues, be on call at night, fill gaps left by GP's because they are frightened of pregnant women, and still find time to be midwives.

I feel sorry for the nurses bearing the brunt of it in GP surgeries and A&E who more often than not have greater clinical skills than the doctors, better bedside manner and half the pay and appreciation.

[cashman]

only problem i see with that lettie is what about the many people who trust the word of docters,nurses, legal people etc,i know or knew many people like that(some no longer with us)it wouldn't enter some peoples heads to ask for a 2nd opinion,some may call them stupid i would say trusting and brought up to have respect for a professional opinion,i'm not attacking anyone i have included lawers, also financial advisors,i'm just saying some folk will always trust a professional opinion.maybe thats not true?but i doubt it.

[lettie]

It certainly is true Cashman. That's what professionals are there for but everyone makes mistakes occaisionally whether it be in medicine, accountancy or legal, human beings are not perfect. If I hadn't have asked for a second opinion from my doctor 10 years ago I'd probably be dead by now. He thought I was an idiot and I proved him wrong, I immediately changed my GP.

[Busman747]

Originally Posted by chav1

i think peel houses system where you see the nurse so she can refer you to a doctor if she thinks you need one is dangerous

I would have confidence in the nurses at Peel House...but object to explaining my problems in front of three nurses and an old granny that is having her varicose veins looked at. Consultations SHOULD be private!

Part of the "entertainment" in Peel House is listening to everything that is being said in the nurses treatment room while waiting outside the door for your turn, maybe thats why the piped music is sometimes turned onto full volume?