nhs con - Page 2

HarryX · 03-10-2003, 15:39

But mick where do you draw the line?

If your legs falling off in an industrial accident.. your not gonna die but its 50k to sew it back on and next to nothing to let it frop off and sew up the mess.... you cant afford.....gulp!

Silly example but you get the idea.. the line shouldnt be drawn at wether its life threatening..

lettie · 03-10-2003, 15:43

A few of us at work have said for a while, that some things should be paid for separately. Although we do realise that these things are health problems, and they contribute to overall wellbeing, they are not life or death (although we do get the occasional suicide associated with poor body image) Unfortunately everybody is concerned with moving forward these days and trying to be all things to all men. While researching and experimenting with new non life saving procedures, the scientists are more concerned with wether something can be done, rather than wether it should!! :

Mick · 03-10-2003, 15:46

i ment  none crytical sergery like ivf boob job face lift there must be a big list of things like if
its at your own request.
then you should pay somthing

Tealeaf · 03-10-2003, 15:52

Harry, if you lose your legs in an industrial accident, we can assume that you have not made the conscious desision to do chop 'em off. we can also assume that you're likely to be in some pain and that through bloodloss the injury is life threatening - yes, you need treatment, free, at the point of delivery.

However, if you lose your d**k in a sex change op, I think I am right in saying that you have made a decision to do so. Why then, should I have to pay for this nonsense through my taxes? Your choice - unlike above - so you pay. It's that simple.

janet · 03-10-2003, 15:58

If your illness is self inflicted due to  e.g. smoking, drug abuse, alcololism,obesity then if you are not willing to help yourself then why should the N.H.S. help them. there is a lot of genuine illness's out there as it is.

HarryX · 03-10-2003, 16:00

agree tealeaf... My response re legs was to micks post suggesting the line is drawn for paying through death or non death and in my example i put...not life threatenign...  

lettie · 03-10-2003, 16:05

 That's what they're trying to do now. If you are ill because of your own habits, then the NHS will treat you, but they are looking at having the patients sign for want of a better word a contract to say that they will diet/give up smoking/take more exercise etc, in return for their treatment. This is not up and running yet, but was on the news a few weeks ago. It will mainly affect GP's but they have to try and get across that treatment could be withdrawn if the patient does not comply.

HarryX · 03-10-2003, 16:06

Janet ..your simplifying things a little.. smoking may not be self aflicted all the time... For example I started when I was age 14 and didnt know any better... no notices saying its bad for you.. even advertisments on telly telling you to buy them... OK I managed to give up and have been given a clean bill of health.. no problems after 25 yrs of smoking...but i take no responability or blame for smoking.. i didnt know it was bad and it took me half my life to give up... but a lot arnt so lucky...

if it was a simple choice to give up smoking i believe everyone would do it./.. it aint that easy and if it wasnt really your fault you started and ya ddnt know it was bad for ya then....

there are other issues with smokers... do you turn someone away and tell them to go die in pain.. because its your own fault.. you made a mistake and started smoking now pay the price?

you ahve to take circumstances into consideration.

whats about people who are obese and its killing them.. do you turn them away saying its your own fault for eating too much?

what about someone who contracts a death threating llness while on holiday.. turn them away ..its there own fault for going on holiday..

life isnt that simple

Mick · 03-10-2003, 16:16

Having a leg torn off in a accedent harry can be live threatening it depends on the curcumstances .
but i was thinking more cosmetic as i said in my last post

lettie · 03-10-2003, 16:19

 I agree Harry, it's not that simple. Public health is the new buzzword. Specialist doctors nurses and midwives are now going into communities to try and get health messages across. A lot of their efforts are aimed at young people, who just don't seem to be getting that they have to take some responsibility for their own health. Hence drop in centres like the new one at fairfield. These centres are quite good, cos we try to make them fun in order to educate, there are other things that we are trying to do in the hyndburn area, as blackburn has had some of the services that we are trying to get up and running here for ages, and those of us who work in Hyndburn feel that we are losing out.

Hyndburn has the largest number of pregnant drug users in our health district a specialist service is now being provided.
HIV is on the increase, as is chlamydia, National sexual health strategy (DoH) 2002 is looking to address this. Many nurses and midwives are now training in sexual health (myself included)
Smoking cessation services are now provided in the area.
I could ramble on for hours about this, and it all costs money, but I'm starvin and need me tea!!

ANNE · 03-10-2003, 16:23

Sorry Harry but you and you alone are responsible for the choice you made to start smoking. People told us we were kids and so shouldn't be doing it. Hence you were told it was wrong.
YOU were the one that made the decision yes I will smoke.
When the N.H.S was intraduced surley the smoking related problems were worse.
Things are different now. Nothing stays the same exept one thing the cost of things. At least and I keep comeing back to one thing putting cash were it's needed.
This is NOT with stone things, bronze statues etc.
You cant mend or nurse anything with a ------ statue.

Mick · 03-10-2003, 16:25

as you say lettie it all costs money its alright saying to someone you must go on a more healthy diat but when you are on income support with 3 children to feed how do you afford the food seen the price of fish latley
i have been told to go on a better diet but cant afford the fish chicken and other things surgested .
people on income support arnt rich you know
and no we dont spend a lot on other things
Anne sees to that
she is very good with the food bill
they said have oily fish 2 times a week who going to pay for it
???
the better the food is for you the more expencive it gets

Tealeaf · 03-10-2003, 16:40

The fact is that their are alternative ways of funding public health treatment other than the one we have now....and those alternative ways in in Europe, Canada & Australia result in an overall better standard of healthcare than we have in this country.

Not only that, but the staff are better resourced and work under far less stress. The nightmare job in the world must be that of an A & E nurse in any major hospital midnight on a saturday.

OK there's an awful lot more Doc's & Nurses than 6 years ago, but there's less beds (not in itself that crucial) and vastly more bums on seats (bureaucrats)

The sooner people start to do some radical questioniing about the NHS, what it's there for and what it does, the better - then maybe we can start to make changes and catch up with our cousins

Mick · 03-10-2003, 16:43

[quote author=Tealeaf link=board=general;num=1065035655;start=0#27 date=10/03/03 at 17:40:14]The fact is that their are alternative ways of funding public health treatment other than the one we have now....and those alternative ways in in Europe, Canada & Australia result in an overall better standard of healthcare than we have in this country.[/quote]
examples ???

lettie · 03-10-2003, 16:43

 Most of the recent and not so recent studies have found that poverty is also a big issue with health. Trying to have a healthy diet is all well and good, but a lot of our families round here just can't afford it, so they do their best with what little they have. The eat 5 campaign of recent years is an example. Trying to get people to eat 5 portions of fruit or veg a day. Not everybody can afford to. There has also been a rise in the incidence of TB in this country over recent years, due to poor, damp housing and overcrowded housing. A heck of a lot of social issues need to be adressed, because they all ultimately knock at the door of the NHS.