NHS reforms..a mess?

Mancie · 31-01-2012, 05:03

This government are hell bent on pushing through what they call "reforms" to the NHS.. most of these "reforms" involve transfers of tax payers money into private companies.. it's the same old song that the private sector will do a better job and are to be trusted with our taxes and contributions. nurses don't want it, doctors don't want it.

BBC News - Plans for NHS in England an unholy mess, say journals

maxthecollie · 31-01-2012, 08:17

We don't want it

Boeing Guy · 31-01-2012, 08:57

No and we did not want the PFI joke over seen by your mates, you know the Last Labour Government. But the One eyes Scot did just that, giving the country a ticking time bomb.
But I forget you have a short term memory, anything between May 1997 and May 2010 you cannot remember......

jaysay · 31-01-2012, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy

No and we did not want the PFI joke over seen by your mates, you know the Last Labour Government. But the One eyes Scot did just that, giving the country a ticking time bomb.
But I forget you have a short term memory, anything between May 1997 and May 2010 you cannot remember......

I saw the editor of one of these journals on TV this morning all the hall marks of a left wing oik

kestrelx · 31-01-2012, 09:24

I think the NHS needs some change but maybe the Tories will be changing it in favour of private enterprise and not with the end user the patient in mind!

jaysay · 31-01-2012, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by kestrelx

I think the NHS needs some change but maybe the Tories will be changing it in favour of private enterprise and not with the end user the patient in mind!

If you read that statement back you MAYBE see what a total load of rubbish it is

kestrelx · 31-01-2012, 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

If you read that statement back you MAYBE see what a total load of rubbish it is

My personal experience with the NHS was a disgrace and made me realise that NHS needs change. This is partly because Doctors generally seem to think they know better! They don't always and should consider the patient - I've heard many many reports of Doctors being incompetent and the complaints procedure is inadequate! Are the tories going to change this? Probably not!

But they will change it so that private companies can make a lot of money!

jaysay · 31-01-2012, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by kestrelx

My personal experience with the NHS was a disgrace and made me realise that NHS needs change. This is partly because Doctors generally seem to think they know better! They don't always and should consider the patient - I've heard many many reports of Doctors being incompetent and the complaints procedure is inadequate! Are the tories going to change this? Probably not!

But they will change it so that private companies can make a lot of money!

Please elaborate were they will make these changes, always remembering that I've been treated by the NHS a hell of a site more than I would have like over the last 30 years, and but for those doctors, who you seem to think don't know what they are doing, I wouldn't have been here today. There are changes needed, we might start by removing the army of pen pushers who are now employed, a ratio of 1000 clinicians to 998 pen pushers, you tell me where else in the world would this be deemed acceptable to run any successful type of service, its a recipe for disaster. The last time I was in hospital in 2009, on admittance to the ward the sister sent around half an hour filling out a questionnaire about me, which ranged from if I could make a cuppa to did I wear a watch. When I ask what the reason for this "new" idea, she just shrugged her shoulders and said, suppose it keeps somebody busy down London

Margaret Pilkington · 31-01-2012, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by kestrelx

My personal experience with the NHS was a disgrace and made me realise that NHS needs change. This is partly because Doctors generally seem to think they know better! They don't always and should consider the patient - I've heard many many reports of Doctors being incompetent and the complaints procedure is inadequate! Are the tories going to change this? Probably not!

But they will change it so that private companies can make a lot of money!

If you have had a bad experience of the NHS then you should follow the complaints procedure.

You say that the complaints procedure is inadequate, but you don't elaborate and tell us in what way it is inadequate.

Doctors are regulated by the General Medical Council....and if your complaint is about a doctor then you should complain to them giving full details, I can assure you that the complaint will be full investigated.

Many of the problems beset by the NHS are due to politicians (who know nothing about how the service should be run) meddling...introducing Market forces, targets, tick lists. Since when have patients been tins of beans?

jaysay · 31-01-2012, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

If you have had a bad experience of the NHS then you should follow the complaints procedure.

You say that the complaints procedure is inadequate, but you don't elaborate and tell us in what way it is inadequate.

Doctors are regulated by the General Medical Council....and if your complaint is about a doctor then you should complain to them giving full details, I can assure you that the complaint will be full investigated.

Many of the problems beset by the NHS are due to politicians (who know nothing about how the service should be run) meddling...introducing Market forces, targets, tick lists. Since when have patients been tins of beans?

Think the main problem is to much red tape Margaret, one example is in my earlier post, what the hell it had to do with my care and treatment while in hospital god only knows, but it did take half and hour to complete and tied the ward sister up when she could have been doing other things, multiply that by all the patients admitted and it mounts up to a lot of wasted time, and for what, to keep some civil servant in a job evaluating them

Another thing that came in around 2009 was the paperwork that ambulance drivers had to fill in when carrying patients on oxygen (in triplicate)yet again some bright spark justifying their telephone number salary and that's just the tip of the iceberg, the rain forests have lost loads of trees to furnish all the new paperwork introduce over the last decade and for why

kestrelx · 31-01-2012, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

If you have had a bad experience of the NHS then you should follow the complaints procedure.

You say that the complaints procedure is inadequate, but you don't elaborate and tell us in what way it is inadequate.

Doctors are regulated by the General Medical Council....and if your complaint is about a doctor then you should complain to them giving full details, I can assure you that the complaint will be full investigated.

Many of the problems beset by the NHS are due to politicians (who know nothing about how the service should be run) meddling...introducing Market forces, targets, tick lists. Since when have patients been tins of beans?

I have been through the complaints procedure and it is basically a whitewash.

There is this belief in society that just because someone is a GP or Doctor that they know better, in the extreme i say, look at Dr Shipman! Ok that is an extreme. But it shows that people don't question someone because they are a doctor.

Then when you complain they tend to back each other up as do Police and all these organisations.

Anyone see the Channel 4 program Dispatches; Can you trust your Doctor?

Dispatches - Can You Trust Your Doctor? - Channel 4

jaysay · 31-01-2012, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by kestrelx

I have been through the complaints procedure and it is basically a whitewash.

There is this belief in society that just because someone is a GP or Doctor that they know better, in the extreme i say, look at Dr Shipman! Ok that is an extreme. But it shows that people don't question someone because they are a doctor.

Then when you complain they tend to back each other up as do Police and all these organisations.

Anyone see the Channel 4 program Dispatches; Can you trust your Doctor?

Dispatches - Can You Trust Your Doctor? - Channel 4

Think your scraping the barrel and clutching at straws when you mention Shipman. It want be long before you have a confederate to back you up though, I'm waiting with baited breath

Margaret Pilkington · 31-01-2012, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by kestrelx

I have been through the complaints procedure and it is basically a whitewash.

There is this belief in society that just because someone is a GP or Doctor that they know better, in the extreme i say, look at Dr Shipman! Ok that is an extreme. But it shows that people don't question someone because they are a doctor.

Then when you complain they tend to back each other up as do Police and all these organisations.

Anyone see the Channel 4 program Dispatches; Can you trust your Doctor?

Dispatches - Can You Trust Your Doctor? - Channel 4

Having worked in the NHS and with many doctors over 30 years of service I would take issue with you on that.
In the past people would not question their doctor, believing him to have the better knowledge. That just is not the case today.
The general public are far more vocal about their care and the choices they have in that care. Not only that GP's ask your opinion on what is being done.......or at least mine does. In years gone by this would have been unthinkable

If you find yourself in the position of being cared for by a doctor that you have no faith in, then the answer is in your own hands......change your Doctor.
There are good doctors, bad doctors and indifferent doctors.(and some of the indifference is caused by the system - no continuity, you may see a different GP each time you visit the practice. How can someone have any interest in your care when they don't know anything about you? It isn't like years ago when your GP would deliver you and look after you for the whole of your life. That is the fault of the SYSTEM, not the Doctor)

Harold Shipman was a Doctor who should have been weeded out long before he got to the stage that he did. Being a single Doctor Practice meant that he had no-one monitoring his actions.
I know that there are still single Doctor practices out there but they are in a minority.
I am pretty sure that after the Shipman enquiry recommendations were made about death certification and how this is done.

Gordon Booth · 31-01-2012, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

Think your scraping the barrel and clutching at straws when you mention Shipman. It want be long before you have a confederate to back you up though, I'm waiting with baited breath

Quite right, they say Jack the Ripper was a doctor or surgeon!

Boeing Guy · 31-01-2012, 13:30

To those of you who believe the NHS is a mess and a Joke...... Try this.
Go to Africa, not deep, Morocco will do, get ill as I did, I slipped a disc in my back and then see if you complain....
For information, I was carried down 10 flights of stairs, all the time in acute agony with by back, put into a old mercedes estate/ambulance and driven to a clinic for a scan. The scanner was brand new but we were in a shed, then back in the car to a private clinic, after 3 hours of the most intense pain I have ever experienced, i was finally given a shot of pain killer.
Two days later and over £1800.00 I was released, I still was not right.

Compared to one of our cabin crew who did a similar thing on the way back from Turkey last month. When we arrived we had a ambulance meet us, with in 10 mins she was out of pain, taken straight to hospital, 4 days later went home and is seeing a consultant and physio. Cost £0.00

We do not know we are born in the UK, I have spent many years abroad and even today carry a spare sharps and medical giving kit in my case, you never know.
The NHS is bloated with too many managers, just like most of our governmental departments, but it is far better than the alternative.