NHS Reforms - GP's get the purse - Page 2

jaysay · 13-07-2010, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

This is just another attempt at cost cutting.. everyone can see it .. there's nothing wrong in trying to cut costs as long as patient care is paramount.. but this government are hell bent on cuts at any cost ..( and seems hell bent on spending millions on "reveiw boards").. we already know that most GP's are already under pressure.. this proposal has nothing to do with improving sevices from the NHS.. it's about saving money not lives.

Drinking on an empty head again Mancie

lettie · 13-07-2010, 15:58

This is a seriously dodgy idea. The problem is that Doctors are Doctors, not accountants. It is difficult enough to get an appointment with your GP as it is. Believe it or not, it is actually a lot easier in this area of the country to see your GP than it is elsewhere, but most people do have to wait a day or 2. GPs cannot provide 24 hour cover in a lot of areas without using locums, many of whom have an inferior command of the English language. Mistakes get made or people get fobbed off and end up coming to A&E because the GP has done nothing about their condition. Passing the purse strings to GPs, on top of everything else, could seriously undermine patient care. I don't think that it can possibly improve patient choice and I also think that it will be a costly overhaul of services, yet again.

If the ConDems were serious about saving money in the NHS there are several avenues open to them without massive changes. here are my suggestions

1) Get rid of the non-jobs..... That's right, every trust has a manager for Equality and Diversity, WTF is that all about. Nurses and Doctors are trained to deal with people of different faiths, sexes, ages, abilities and orientations as a normal part of their training. We don't need extra training. Get rid of the non-jobs and get some more nurses, doctors and cleaners on those wards.

2) Get rid of the endless streams of paperwork that accompany the useless targets that get set for us. Yes, the NHS has to show that it is worth the investment, but taking up medical and nursing time filling in forms, cooking the books and fudging the figures is not conducive to providing good patient care. Get rid of spurious paperwork and allow medical staff to do the jobs they are paid for.

3) Every hospital has a reception..... Every patient should clerk in at the reception and prove, prior to seeing a doctor or nurse, that they are entitled to free NHS care. Any who are not, must produce a health insurance policy number or a valid credit card so that they can pay for their care. If the government were serious about tackling health tourism, they would have done this years ago. All of our citizens who are entitled to free care have an NHS card with their number on it. I still have mine, it is issued with your birth certificate. People who are not entitled, do not have a number or card.

Those are just some of my money saving ideas..... What are yours???

Margaret Pilkington · 13-07-2010, 17:22

Hooray Lettie, common sense from someone who knows exactly what they are talking about.
You have said everything that I think about this hare brained idea.

I would also cut costs by using patients own medications...by that I mean anything that the patient was on before coming into hospital should be brought in with the patient and used as if they were in their own home, with the hospital only supplying any additional medicines that their condition requires, as a result of a new diagnosis.

I would make drug companies fight for contracts by reducing their costs to the hospital.
Likewise the companies who provide other services to the hospital...dressings, needles, syringes, IV lines...surgical instruments...they would have to prove that their products were cost effective.

I would ban anyone who had children already, from accessing IVF/fertility services unless they were prepared to pay. Not having children is not a terminal disease.
Reversal of sterilzation, both male and female would have to be paid for.....no
exemptions.
Anyone attending the Accident and Emergency unit in a drunken state, or with injuries or illness provoked by their alcoholic binge would also receive a bill for their treatment...and those who didn't pay would get a visit from the bailiffs.

Asking GP's to manage the NHS is, in Dave-in-Germany's words.....giving the Monkey the key to the Banana plantation......and you would never ask a barber if he thought you needed a haircut...would you???

jaysay · 13-07-2010, 18:04

Margaret that happens to an extent today with medications, I always take all my meds into hospital with me now, because I know full well that it would be days before I get my meds provided on the ward. I also refuse TTOs when being discharged, unless they are ordered three days prior, or I'd never get home

Margaret Pilkington · 13-07-2010, 18:07

Jaysay, it might happen with you, but I know that in many cases it doesn't, and I would make sure that all patients coming into hospital, were aware that they would have to bring in their regular medicines.

Margaret Pilkington · 13-07-2010, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman

well i suppose not only will the money get passed on but so will teh blame when things dont work.I see this as merely a way for governmentto pass over blame and wash their hands of accountability.

aslo i wouldnt trust my doctors with monopoly money yet alone real money.They cant even figure out how to keep teh sugery open more than 4 days of the week despite moving to a much bigger premisis and hiring more doctors

oh and with all these extra doctors and staff they still shut for dinner and havnt grassped teh idea of a two shift lunch

A spot on assessment.......would have given you karma, but it won't let me......I will be back...with Karma.

Margaret Pilkington · 13-07-2010, 18:25

[quote=lettie;828559]

2) Get rid of the endless streams of paperwork that accompany the useless targets that get set for us. Yes, the NHS has to show that it is worth the investment, but taking up medical and nursing time filling in forms, cooking the books and fudging the figures is not conducive to providing good patient care. Get rid of spurious paperwork and allow medical staff to do the jobs they are paid for.

Using Doctors and Nurses doing endless useless paperwork is a real waste of expensive, over qualified resources.
Doctors want to be treating patients, Nurses want to Nurse patients, not fill in forms that show they are doing their job.

One of the reasons that I retired when I did, was because I was fed up with chasing targets, with the government changing the goal posts, with not being physically able to deliver the right patient care because of the mountain of paperwork that was forever landing on my desk.....I was fed up with things like Charter Mark, Bench Marking which were all supposed to benefit patient care, but which took me away from patients to attend useless meetings where policies were talked around, but hardly ever implemented.

Do we really think that Gp's want to be doing this kind of stuff........and at what cost....they aren't going to do it for 'thanks very much' they will wnat to be paid for it. How does that save money then???
Answers on a postcard to Andrew Lansley.

Mancie · 13-07-2010, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

This is just another attempt at cost cutting.. everyone can see it .. there's nothing wrong in trying to cut costs as long as patient care is paramount.. but this government are hell bent on cuts at any cost ..( and seems hell bent on spending millions on "reveiw boards").. we already know that most GP's are already under pressure.. this proposal has nothing to do with improving sevices from the NHS.. it's about saving money not lives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

Drinking on an empty head again Mancie

Same old boring reply .. if you don't agree with what I say then at least put up some sort of argument..I know you might struggle but have a go eh?

jaysay · 14-07-2010, 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

Same old boring reply .. if you don't agree with what I say then at least put up some sort of argument..I know you might struggle but have a go eh?

The day you but a logical balanced argument forward I'll do that, but its usually so lopsided it slides of the computer screen

Mancie · 14-07-2010, 23:18

[quote=Margaret Pilkington;828646]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lettie

Using Doctors and Nurses doing endless useless paperwork is a real waste of expensive, over qualified resources.
Doctors want to be treating patients, Nurses want to Nurse patients, not fill in forms that show they are doing their job.

Do we really think that Gp's want to be doing this kind of stuff........and at what cost....they aren't going to do it for 'thanks very much' they will wnat to be paid for it. How does that save money then???
Answers on a postcard to Andrew Lansley.

I argree this "shake up" will not save money and it will not improve anything, it will not improve the role of nurses who have better things to do in 12 hour shift work.. and as for the GP's who already have a hefty workload it will be a nightmare.

How does this work?... a patient goes to see the GP, he/she may have a minor problem or a serious condition.. either way the GP has to make a decision and take into account the finances of his/her practice.. I can see it ending up were a patient sees a GP for a few minutes but he resulting financial meetings take all day!... all GP's will have to take on accountants and extra secretaries .. and possibly yet another major computer system costing billions that does not work... this has nothing to do with an improved NHS.. it's got alot to do with an idealogical, almost obsessive problem the Tories have with the NHS.

Margaret Pilkington · 15-07-2010, 06:42

It maybe that the redundant NHS Managers will find employment with GP's who support this system....or that the work will be sub contracted out to private firms....which will employ the NHS managers who are ditched...but at much lower wages.
The GP's won't have as much control over this last option and I can't see it being cheaper......but I can see scary corners being cut.

Mancie · 17-07-2010, 06:17

This is pathetic.. there was no mention of any dramatic shake up of the NHS in any manifesto by any party..how blind can people be?.. this type of shift to the private sector does not get thought up in a few days after the election.. this has been planned and thought out for years by the tories.. live in the real world.. this is an open door to GP's to hire private accountants and in the end will result in those GP's moving into private practice.
This is only the start.. Police forces to be cut by up to 60,000 within 5yrs.. despite the promised "cap" on NHS funds nurses to be cut by 15,000..state pensions frozen ..criminals to be released early and the courts told to dish out lower sentances.. bus passes for the elderly downgraded... incomes for wheelchair invalids and even the blind lowered.. it goes on and on.. if it took Labour 13yrs to make a mess of this country then it's taken the condems less than 3 months to kick the death out of anything we had left.