no smoking in pubs. - Page 3

cashman · 31-08-2009, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattylad

And please do not for one minute think that because smoking has been banned in pubs etc for the past few years that you are hard done to, us non smokers have not been able to go to the pup for many more years because of the very reason that many smoked in there!

i think thats pathetic, speak to landlords n stewards about how many non smokers they have gained since the ban,ask em if they have lost any trade? i have -suggest you do the same n then ya may not be as sanctamonious,a compromise to this ban, that has drove many to wall would be far better.

mattylad · 31-08-2009, 18:34

If you were Friendly then you would not have shouted at me in the first place!

You were in fact being aggressive towards me

Restless · 31-08-2009, 18:36

never really minded people smoking in pubs... i just cant stand it in pubs/cafes/resturants where they are serving food...

mattylad · 31-08-2009, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

i think thats pathetic, speak to landlords n stewards about how many non smokers they have gained since the ban,ask em if they have lost any trade? i have -suggest you do the same n then ya may not be as sanctamonious,a compromise to this ban, that has drove many to wall would be far better.

I think it has already been said that some do not go to pubs because of the cost of drinking in them, the cost of a pint is now way more than many wish to spend & as they had to find other entertainment while pubs were not smoke free then many are not going to change their ways.

I would never go to a pub because of the smoky atmosphere, I do on occasion go now - but not that often as I can neither afford he cost nor the effects of a night out drinking.

Have I said that there should not be any compromise? NO.

I have merely put across the view that now that smoking has been banned in pubs, they are equally open to everyone instead of just those that like to breath you old smoke.

It seems that it is you smokers that are getting all defensive about your rants in wanting to smoke in pubs, you seem to be forgetting about the people that do not want to breath your smoke.

I agree that there should be better facilities, such as smoking rooms (with adequate ventilation etc) or outside facilities with roofs.
I too think the ban on smoking inside any structure that has 3 sides on it is also as pathetic as you may think, it is entirely unfair especially when that structure's purpose is for smoking in.
A bus stop on the other hand is not designed as such as it can also contain non smokers, yet they always seem to be complained about when a smoker is asked not to smoke there.

By all means campaign for better facilities that allow you to smoke, changes in the law that allow publicans etc to put up cheap & effective facilities.

But I do not see in any way a return to smoking inside the pubs themselves and thats not gloating or being sanctimonious, its merely considering the effects of smoking on others.

cashman · 31-08-2009, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattylad

It seems that it is you smokers that are getting all defensive about your rants in wanting to smoke in pubs, you seem to be forgetting about the people that do not want to breath your smoke.

I agree that there should be better facilities, such as smoking rooms (with adequate ventilation etc) or outside facilities with roofs.
I too think the ban on smoking inside any structure that has 3 sides on it is also as pathetic as you may think, it is entirely unfair especially when that structure's purpose is for smoking in.
A bus stop on the other hand is not designed as such as it can also contain non smokers, yet they always seem to be complained about when a smoker is asked not to smoke there.

By all means campaign for better facilities that allow you to smoke, changes in the law that allow publicans etc to put up cheap & effective facilities.

But I do not see in any way a return to smoking inside the pubs themselves and thats not gloating or being sanctimonious, its merely considering the effects of smoking on others.

not defensive or ranting about it, i rarely go in a pub these days as anyone who knows me will say, mainly cos i am unable to drink. i'm just speaking fer common sense, not summat that has had a very large detrimental effect on peoples livelyhoods, but that point don't seem to register with people like you.

but don't worry about it yer not alone.

accyman · 31-08-2009, 19:23

what a load of crap it is when people say they couldnt go to pubs because people smoked in them , even asthmatics managed to survive going to the pub so unless yu have a serious alergic reaction to tobbacco there was nothing stopping you going to the pub

some moan about how tehir clothes stank of tobbacco teh day after but didnt mind it while they were there getting drunk and having a really good time either getting wasted or trying to get laid

is there a new flood of customers filling the pubs now that had previously never been for a pint and suddenly decided to start drinking in pubs once the ban came in ?

as a smoker i agree where food is served no smoking shoud be enforced but a nation wide ban in all pubs to suit a mionority is pathetic infact them kind of peopel only bring a good atmosphere down with tehir moaning and bitching so it was better they wernt in the pubs anyway

funny how many non smokers stand outside even in winter to chat to their mates who smoke and put up with smoke there under a conopy or been breathed out very near to them by the smokers

either get a grip or stay at home where no one has to listen to your whining because plenty of non smokers couldnt give a hoot about smoking in pubs

katex · 31-08-2009, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattylad

I agree that there should be better facilities, such as smoking rooms (with adequate ventilation etc) or outside facilities with roofs.

To be fair, Mattylad did say this, and that is what I think should have been implemented ... extractor fans are very effective these days and would have worked for smokers and non-smokers alike. Unfortunately, we don't have a choice now but to be outlawed to the elements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy

Its simple really, the vast majority of Men and Women in the UK don't smoke. Around 22% of men and 20% of Women smoke.
Now that you are the Minority, you want to force your rule and lifestyle on me.
Okay but when the UK adopts Shiara Law what will you do then.

Smokers are the few.

I don't quite get this point Boeing Guy. Mmmm, let me see now, that is about 10 million smokers .. not forgetting the odd 2 million who smoke cigars/pipes, in the U.K. Surely a substantial vote against any legislation attempts ?

You have room to talk anyway, driving around the skies in an effluent CO2 vehicle, affecting our health and planet. Flyers are also in the minority, so should we ban this form of travel for the good of the whole world ?? Will be something done soon I am sure, if only in extra taxes, etc.

By the way, secondary smoking has not yet been established as fact.

mattylad · 31-08-2009, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

By the way, secondary smoking has not yet been established as fact.

It has for me, secondary smoke is what is attributed with giving my mother the cancer that killed her.

It is what makes it hard for me to breath when in its presence & what makes my clothes stink when I dont want them to.

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But its simple, you want to smoke in a pub, I dont want you to when I am there.
As we are never likely to ever be in the same pub then you can all do as you please.
You just have to convince someone to let you, (bear in mind that it was NOT me that bought in this ban) which I doubt you will be able to do.

I am not moaning about not being able to smoke in pubs, it seems that some here are.

End of discussion.

Boeing Guy · 31-08-2009, 21:48

Okay Katex,
There are approx 50,893,318 adults in the Uk, so a 5th are smokers......I would say that is a minority.

Second hand smoke, well according to the WHO, The Surgeon General, International agency for the research on cancer, it does exist.
Here is some reading if you are interested,

http://www.who.int/tobacco/framework...TC_english.pdf

http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monogr.../mono83-7E.pdf

the evaluation is here 'There is sufficient evidence that involuntary smoking (exposure to secondhand or ‘environmental’ tobacco smoke) causes lung cancer in humans.'

Watch the film Thankyou for smoking, might make you sit up a bit.

re aviation, well if you want to start a thread on that we could argue, however if you have even been in a car or bus, then you are causing lots of damage to the environment as well.

katex · 31-08-2009, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattylad

It has for me, secondary smoke is what is attributed with giving my mother the cancer that killed her.

It is what makes it hard for me to breath when in its presence & what makes my clothes stink when I dont want them to.

------------------------------------

Sorry about your mum Mattylad .. but this is the new blame culture .. this can never be proved.

As for making it hard for you to breath .. have you some underlying condition here .. e.g. asthma ? Otherwise, probably your imagination.

Clothes stink ? .. well, yes, does grip onto clothes .. wool mainly, but all outside smells do this (as all cooking smells too, from restaurants,curries/chips, etc.) Nasty aftershaves and perfumes grip my clothes, and have to swill them through after a night out ... well, never wear anything twice anyway without a wash.

Boeing Guy · 31-08-2009, 22:02

Katex, I have just given you the proof that Secondhand smoke is a killer....
Ignore it if you wish.

I will not debate further as there is no point, as you obviously won't listen to reason backed up by proof. BTW any proof that Secondhand smoke is not a killer?

I wonder if you are a smoker, I am not and as said earlier not opposed to a compromise, as long as I do not have to breath those nasty chemicals in.

katex · 31-08-2009, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy

Okay Katex,
There are approx 50,893,318 adults in the Uk, so a 5th are smokers......I would say that is a minority.

Second hand smoke, well according to the WHO, The Surgeon General, International agency for the research on cancer, it does exist.
Here is some reading if you are interested,

http://www.who.int/tobacco/framework...TC_english.pdf

http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monogr.../mono83-7E.pdf

the evaluation is here 'There is sufficient evidence that involuntary smoking (exposure to secondhand or ‘environmental’ tobacco smoke) causes lung cancer in humans.'

Watch the film Thankyou for smoking, might make you sit up a bit.

re aviation, well if you want to start a thread on that we could argue, however if you have even been in a car or bus, then you are causing lots of damage to the environment as well.

Not saying NOT in the minority ... just a lot of people still smoke who should have had a voice ... couldn't understand your argument... still don't. The disabled are in the minority .. so should we spend money on ramps, etc., OK. that is daft ! ... but so is your point.

You can always google articles which lean towards your thoughts, but I believe the medical people I am close to that are up-to-date. I can google papers that state not yet conclusive.

As for your last statement ... you are just being childish now .. I only brought up aviation because this health and environment question is non smoker's argument to the smoking question when everybody, as far as I am concerned, is nothing but blatant hypocrites.

Anyway, thought you had taken a back seat on this discussion. Hope that is not the most susceptable place on your plane for picking up all those air-ridden bugs ...

shillelagh · 31-08-2009, 23:17

Seems to me that you will have non smokers on one side and smokers on t'other side .. both sides never going to agree .. so why not agree to disagree?

Non smokers didnt like going to pubs because of the fag smoke ... anyway banned smoking in the pubs, restaurants, bars, clubs etc .. so now smoke free. Smokers if they want a ciggie now stand outside either at the front of the pub or out the back if there is a smoking area ... Non smokers have to walk through the smokers standing outside to enter the pub where it is smoke free .. some dont like that and now are complaining because they have to walk through them to get into a non smoking area .. so wont enter the pub and spend the money that the pubs need to keep going.... Some pubs dont have room to put a proper smoking shelter up so smokers do have to stand out on the street ..

plus on top of this supermarkets selling booze at a cheap price .. people are stopping at home and drinking cheap booze .. and then complaining that pubs are closing ..

All in all its a vicious circle ..

katex · 31-08-2009, 23:34

No Shill .. don't agree with you. It is the non-smokers who are the aggressors here, as Less has pointed out. Us smokers have always accepted the fact that smoke can be annoying to everyone in restaurants and pubs , but just aggrieved that some sort of compromise was not even considered and linked with help to landlords to salvage their smoking customers.

See The Wellington in Clayton is now up for sale along with The Royal last month ....

cashman · 31-08-2009, 23:36

without being aggressive i think all the whinging non smokers, should be taken out n shot.