No wonder people don't get involved

WillowTheWhisp · 07-07-2008, 14:56

Man sees a break-in in progress so tries to stop them getting away until the police arrive. Police thank him for his help.

So what happens next?

Click here to find out.

pipinfort · 07-07-2008, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Man sees a break-in in progress so tries to stop them getting away until the police arrive. Police thank him for his help.

So what happens next?

Click here to find out.

Well as your thread title says............i really is ridiculous is`nt it...? although i would intervene knowing that i would at least be helping and not morally the one in the wrong.........despite what the ass of a law says

flashy · 07-07-2008, 15:03

they mentioned on the news the other day that Boris Johnson (sp?) is encouraging people to walk away from situations like this, just in case they get hurt, well i'm sorry but if i saw someone being beaten up i wouldnt and couldnt just walk away from it, even if it meant me getting hurt, yeah i know its a different situation, but i still couldnt just walk away

Loz · 07-07-2008, 15:17

What an absolute joke!
How are we supposed to stand back and let thugs get away with stuff like this?
I can't believe(well i can actually nowadays) that the guy is being charged with assault when he was trying to prevent a crime.
How backwards and screwed up are our laws?
I worry for the future i really do.

SPUGGIE J · 07-07-2008, 15:27

Several weeks ago there was an "altercation" in the block that I stay that ring lead to the poor sod that intervened copping a busted arm for his troubles. As these drunken altercations are the norm at the mo I stay out of them especially when its the early hours and drink is involved. If out in the public domain I would be there and not walk away though nowadays there is a chance of my ribs or guts being parted by a blade.

flashy · 07-07-2008, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

Several weeks ago there was an "altercation" in the block that I stay that ring lead to the poor sod that intervened copping a busted arm for his troubles. As these drunken altercations are the norm at the mo I stay out of them especially when its the early hours and drink is involved. If out in the public domain I would be there and not walk away though nowadays there is a chance of my ribs or guts being parted by a blade.

how very true spuggie

cashman · 07-07-2008, 16:08

sad to say i would not get involved in that particular situation, had a similar experiance about 15 yrs ago, when late mum in law was being terrorised by yobs, n police would not come, i called in the station n said i would stay with her n if they came back i would deal with em if the police had not the time, was told if i did i would be arrested, so pips i advise ya to think long n hard about it.

jaysay · 07-07-2008, 16:33

Nothing surprises me anymore, its what we have come to expect from the establishment in todays Britain,

that is unless its another Daily Mail story as Wynonie would say

derekgas · 07-07-2008, 18:21

Only one thing for it then imo, make sure the 'reasonable force' is worth the fine.

cashman · 07-07-2008, 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekgas

Only one thing for it then imo, make sure the 'reasonable force' is worth the fine.

yer assuming a fine mate, the fact yer n innocent citizen should ensure ya get 3 months at least.

derekgas · 07-07-2008, 18:47

You are probably right cashy, would have had no second thought to giving them a thick ear years gone by, but you have to think twice about it these days, mostly thanks to mine and your beloved do gooders!

Studio25 · 08-07-2008, 08:33

There's more to it than the story shows. Any citizen is allowed to use "reasonable force" to detain suspects. From the CPS website:

Quote:

A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances for the purposes of:

self-defence; or
defence of another; or
defence of property; or
prevention of crime; or
lawful arrest.

In assessing the reasonableness of the force used, prosecutors should ask two questions:

was the use of force justified in the circumstances, i.e. was there a need for any force at all? and
was the force used excessive in the circumstances?

The courts have indicated that both questions are to answered on the basis of the facts as the accused honestly believed them to be (R v Williams (G) 78 Cr. App R 276, R v Oatbridge, 94 Cr App R 367 and <Archbold 19-49>).

To that extent it is a subjective test. There is, however, an objective element to the test. The jury must then go on to ask themselves whether, on the basis of the facts as the accused believed them to be, a reasonable person would regard the force used as reasonable or excessive.

WillowTheWhisp · 08-07-2008, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Studio25

There's more to it than the story shows. Any citizen is allowed to use "reasonable force" to detain suspects. From the CPS website:

That's the problem though - one person's interpretation of 'reasonable force' is not necessarily another person's. The police initially thanked this guy. They didn't arrest him on the spot, so it didn't seem to them that he was using unreasonable force. He actually got a thumping himself.

Studio25 · 08-07-2008, 08:45

Oops - hit "Submit reply" instead of "Preview post" and then took too long to tag this bit on the end:

The police initially will have had reason to believe the "have a go hero" used excess force, and that's why he was treated as a crim. Whether that turns into a prosecution is for the CPS to decide, based on whether they can secure evidence and whether they too believe the force was excessive.

Simply grappling the guy to the ground is, in my opinion, reasonable force. If the kid was already subdued but the "businessman" started or continued to put the boot in, that's assault.

I know from personal experience that The Daily Mail doesn't let the facts get in the way of a good story. My wife won a competition with a recipe of mine from when I lived alone. The DM covered the story and were quite blatant that it was not "interesting enough" to publish, so they would make a little twist here and there so it turned into me meeting her and falling in love because of her cooking.

Still - I should be thankful. They could have turned it into "Wife Steals Husband's Intellectual Property Shock" - and it would have been marginally closer to the truth.

Studio25 · 08-07-2008, 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

That's the problem though - one person's interpretation of 'reasonable force' is not necessarily another person's. The police initially thanked this guy. They didn't arrest him on the spot, so it didn't seem to them that he was using unreasonable force. He actually got a thumping himself.

Depends on where you get that info. If it's from the DM, take it with a pinch of salt. If you know anyone involved and they've told you, then that aspect of the story has far more credibility than what's in the paper.