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[jaysay]

Originally Posted by g jones

John (anonymously known as jaysay on here), you wrote in the ob,

"...(all the leters are my own work) I have always had my name and address published. This is unlike some people who hide behind pen names or ask for their names to be withheld. If you're not prepared to put your name to a letter and have it published then it's not even worth sending".

Why are you publishing letters/comments on here under a nome de plume then?

When I joined this site I thought the Idea was to use pen names, I have never made any secret of my name, in fact an earlier post on this thread I told those who didn't already, what my name is, as I don't have a problem with people knowing my true identity. In some ways this has cost me dear over the last 24 years (thats how long I've been writing to the press). In that time I have had death threats, threats to burn down my home, windows broken, car tyres slashed, cars scraped with nails, threatening phone calls at all times of day and night, even dog dirt smeard of my front door, I bet that has never happened to you Graham. Even of late Peter Britcliffe has had the window in his front door smashed and a pint thrown over him in his local by a lout who just ran out the door, so please don't talk to me about abuse, I have had my share at the hands of so-called Labour supporters, just for having an oppinion. The only thing I will say Graham is this I will never heap personal abuse on who or any other political figure, the policies and beliefes yes thats fair game, but how can abuse you on a personal level as I don't even know you. I think every one in public life do things to make a differance, I'm sure that has always been your intention and I know its Peter's

[claytonender]

Ok Jaysay, I agree that the people of St Andrews have elected him for the 8th time. However it is the rest of the population of Hyndburn who also have to suffer him. When I was canvassing for Labour (I canvassed in every ward by the way) in the local election in May, the comments about him on the doorstep were less than complimentary to say the least, and before you ask - no I did not bring his name up - it was the people I was canvassing who mentioned him first.
The Man is an embarrassment to both his Party and the Borough.
I notice that you haven't made any comments about the rest of my posting - maybe Peter is in denial about the sorry state of low cost and rented accommodation in this borough. He probably thinks they are not worth the effort, as they are not potential Tory voters.
What we need in this borough are jobs that pay a decent living wage, and affordable good standard housing for everyone. How does Peter propose to curb the landlords who charge exorbitant rents for appalling housing. Or does he feel it is ok to 'screw' the poorest members of our society - it probably keeps them in check and they know their place. After all we should all look up to the Tories - they were born with the divine right to rule us and keep us subservient to them, maybe we should be touching our forelock and bowing to Peter.

[g jones]

Originally Posted by jaysay

When I joined this site I thought the Idea was to use pen names, I have never made any secret of my name, in fact an earlier post on this thread I told those who didn't already, what my name is, as I don't have a problem with people knowing my true identity. In some ways this has cost me dear over the last 24 years (thats how long I've been writing to the press). In that time I have had death threats, threats to burn down my home, windows broken, car tyres slashed, cars scraped with nails, threatening phone calls at all times of day and night, even dog dirt smeard of my front door, I bet that has never happened to you Graham. Even of late Peter Britcliffe has had the window in his front door smashed and a pint thrown over him in his local by a lout who just ran out the door, so please don't talk to me about abuse, I have had my share at the hands of so-called Labour supporters, just for having an oppinion. The only thing I will say Graham is this I will never heap personal abuse on who or any other political figure, the policies and beliefes yes thats fair game, but how can abuse you on a personal level as I don't even know you. I think every one in public life do things to make a differance, I'm sure that has always been your intention and I know its Peter's

The sad thing about this affair is 1) it has nothing to with politics and 2) it is affecting other people. There are people who probably couldn't give a monkeys stuff about politics or me but have seen I have numerous houses to rent in the paper and are leaving hopeful messages on my answerphone to get back to them. There are other Councillors who ARE landlords and these people would be better off contacting them.

[WillowTheWhisp]

How can anyone claim that the appalling standard of rental property is the fault of the tenants not the landlords? I have "property hunted" with several people over the past couple of years and seen more than a few places that were totally unfit for human habitation. One had mushrooms growing out of the bathroom walls. Another had an indoor water feature in the living room every time the toilet was flushed. Yet another had a wall that was in danger of collapsing on top of someone and possibly killing them. In all cases the landlord claimed there was nothing wrong with the property and expected about £90 pw rent! Interestingly one of those properties is now going to be occupied by the landlord's son and it's amazing the amount of work they are doing on it to bring it up to the standard he requires.

I don't think I've ever gone as far as a vile tirade on here but I do admit to being guilty of having created a political cartoon featuring Cllr Britcliffe entitled "Hyndborg Council - Resistance is Futile". Perhaps some of the older members may recall it. As every politician should know you need to have a skin thick enough to endure such things. It happens to the best as well as the worst.

BTW the words "pot", "kettle" and "black" come to mind Jaysay for you have included the odd personal insult in your very own posts. Let he who is without sin and all that..........

[claytonender]

I agree totally with what you are saying Willow the Whisp, why are Hyndburn Council not doing anything to control these unscruplous private landlords?
Also Jaysay, your post in the Observer did give anyone, who doesn't know Graham personally, the idea that he had properties to rent out. It is so sad that you have given people, are are desparate for decent housing, the wrong impression. All this for a rather sad headline, I hope that next week you will submit a letter correcting your errors - it is the least you can do- you owe it to the people of Hyndburn a proper explanation of your letter.

[Bazf]

I tried to follow the discussion but couldn't make out whos who and which side is good and which is the evil empire, being away from Accy does have its good points.

You can't blame everything on the council leader though. At the end of the day, it's the people who make the neighbourhood, and if certain areas go downhill, it's not always the fault of the leader, some people choose not to respect others..

If this is a politician then god help the area, its the leadership that makes it good or bad, do the people empty thier own bins, clean thier own streets, stop fly tipping etc? who makes the area look good on the eye and something to be proud to own? This person is going back to the good old mill owner, look down on the peasants, they live in squaller and dirt, its thier own fault.
How many pound shops do you need to see that there is a problem.

[garinda]

I remember reading in the local press that when Graham Jones became leader of Labour on HBC, Peter Britcliffe was quoted as saying that he looked forward to working with him, so why the attack in the press by someone so close to him?

By the way I'm still waiting to hear where the 'vile tirades' on here about Cllr. Britcliffe are.

[Tealeaf]

Originally Posted by garinda

By the way I'm still waiting to hear where the 'vile tirades' on here about Cllr. Britcliffe are.

The simple fact is that in parts of Hyndburn - Church, for instance - Peter Britcliffe is about as popular as Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi. Well, we all know what happened to him! However, at least Mr Al-Zarqawi was prepared to personally put his message across in the digital media, unlike Britcliffe who relies on one of his public-bar sycophants to do it for him.

By the way, you can't accuse me of buttering up to messrs Pope, Jones & Knight.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Coucillor Britcliffe has served the area for 23 years we are told by Jaysay.....he may have had vision and foresight at first but I think he has lost his focus and has become more interested in getting his picture in every edition of the local paper. Yes, he was elected recently to the St Andrews ward in Oswaldtwistle for the eighth time....but maybe that was down to the apathy of the voters. And it strikes me that perhaps the truth stings just a bit...which maybe why John Farrer took pen to paper and jumped to his 'friends' defence.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by jaysay

The only thing I will say Graham is this I will never heap personal abuse on who or any other political figure, the policies and beliefes yes thats fair game, but how can abuse you on a personal level as I don't even know you.

Then what on earth was the letter in the paper this morning if it wasn't a personal attack on Graham? What relevance is it to anyone that Graham owns two houses, a lot of other people have a couple of properties or a business - doesn't Peter have a business. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this unless someone has used their political position to benefit their business which I don't believe Graham ever has. And don't play the innocent, there are many times when you've had digs at me on here and in the paper. You frequently use cheap point scoring tactics instead of actually talking about politics.

[yerself]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Sorry, but no Cyfr it has to come from the top down.

So stop being a bolshie teenager Cyfr and look to those fine upstanding pillars of our society, President Bliar and his deputy John Prescott, when you wish to blame someone for all our ills.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Then what on earth was the letter in the paper this morning if it wasn't a personal attack on Graham? What relevance is it to anyone that Graham owns two houses, a lot of other people have a couple of properties or a business - doesn't Peter have a business. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this unless someone has used their political position to benefit their business which I don't believe Graham ever has. And don't play the innocent, there are many times when you've had digs at me on here and in the paper. You frequently use cheap point scoring tactics instead of actually talking about politics.

Come on Gayle that wasn't a personal attack in the Obs, the problem was that I sent that letter into the Obs around 4 weeks ago as I explained to Garinda, the gibe about "Two Homes Jones" was a tongue in cheek effort, which was written the day an article appeared about Graham Jones having two houses. As for me having a go over abuse of Peter Britcliffe, I think I have every right to redress the balance, when ever Jonesy comes on here he likes to try and score cheep political points and is abley abeted by quite a few more, including your good self. If you check my postings on this site you will find a have started very few threads, but most of my post are comments on what others have said. It would appear that you would like it if the likes of yourself and Graham can say exactly what you like without any come back, well it aint going to happen. I have already told Graham about the abuse I have suffered at the hands of so called Labour supporters just for having an oppinion, I even had a trace put on my phone by BT under warrent from the police, now thats what I call abuse Galye when a person has to got to those extents to have a peaceful life, think about it would you like it, you would be screaming blue murder or in your case Red

[claytonender]

ok Jaysay -you say the letter was 'tongue in cheek' and sent to the Observer about 4 weeks ago. But can you please tell me where in the letter it is actually made plain that it was 'tongue in cheek'. You have said in an earlier post on this topic that is a person's politics you are attacking not them personally, but there have been several letters that you have written to the Observer over the years, which have been personal attacks.
Incidentally, you also mention an incident at the council AGM(which was jeld on 18 May), in the letter, by my reckoning that was only 3 weeks ago, so are you sure about the date you sent the leeter to the Observer.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by Bazf

I tried to follow the discussion but couldn't make out whos who and which side is good and which is the evil empire, being away from Accy does have its good points.



If this is a politician then god help the area, its the leadership that makes it good or bad, do the people empty thier own bins, clean thier own streets, stop fly tipping etc? who makes the area look good on the eye and something to be proud to own? This person is going back to the good old mill owner, look down on the peasants, they live in squaller and dirt, its thier own fault.
How many pound shops do you need to see that there is a problem.

I wasn't refering to peoples surroundings, more their personal attitudes towards others. There are loads of people in deprived areas that respect everyone else, but then again theres a lot of people to counter that whome don't respect others, and that can't be fixed by changing some physical aspect of their surroundings. The leadership cannot change someone who dosn't to change or isn't interested in politics, to use an example, an Alcoholic needs to want to help him/herself for the change in their life to happen, then people can help them on their way.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by jaysay

It would appear that you would like it if the likes of yourself and Graham can say exactly what you like without any come back, well it aint going to happen.

Not true - in fact, I only posted the other week that I was missing the arguments that this site used to enjoy on a regular basis. Those arguments were balanced debates where people got to have their say.

Originally Posted by jaysay

I have already told Graham about the abuse I have suffered at the hands of so called Labour supporters just for having an oppinion, I even had a trace put on my phone by BT under warrent from the police, now thats what I call abuse Galye when a person has to got to those extents to have a peaceful life, think about it would you like it, you would be screaming blue murder or in your case Red

I don't condone that at all. But if you choose to send aggressive letters to the papers and behave on this site in an aggressive way then it should be no surprise when people respond to you in the same way.