Official - the uk worst place to grow up - Page 2

lancsdave · 14-02-2007, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by panther

emmm i get your point, but most parents are to blame, you look at kids who are little ****s, and look at the parents...........
the kids round my end who are troublesome, thier parents are either drunk, or completely out of it or gobby just like the kids, they have to get it from someone! but i understand where your coming from.

In the cases you mention then I would agree the parents have a responsibility. I still suggest that is not most parents but a minority, who in turn get all the publicity.

At the end of the day it's a society thing and those responsible for making this country as it is today come from all walks of life and probably a lot of them don't even have children. We live in a greedy and selfish society and those responsible for creating the environment we live in lead by example in that respect.

SPUGGIE J · 14-02-2007, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

There seems to be a general idea that if there's a problem you solve it by throwing money at it but I don't believe that's the answer.

Discipline and spending time with children count for more than material goods in how the child develops.

The parents answer so they dont have to spend time with their offspring is to buy them every gadget they can so they stay in the bedroom from under the feet. This is the 21C version of children should not be seen or heard.

Then when the darlings get old enough to roam the streets to cause enough trouble to be arrested and hauled to court what happens.

The parents pipe up "well they wanted for nothing"

Well hello did you spend time with them as they grew up?

Errrr no.

In that case the blame lies with you!

Kids need their parents more than any bit of electronic item.

lancsdave · 14-02-2007, 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

The parents answer so they dont have to spend time with their offspring is to buy them every gadget they can so they stay in the bedroom from under the feet. This is the 21C version of children should not be seen or heard.

Then when the darlings get old enough to roam the streets to cause enough trouble to be arrested and hauled to court what happens.

The parents pipe up "well they wanted for nothing"

Well hello did you spend time with them as they grew up?

Errrr no.

In that case the blame lies with you!

Kids need their parents more than any bit of electronic item.

It's finding the right balance between the time you have available to spend with them, the time they want to spend with you and the options they have available. My daughter has a lot of gadgets but they are there for when she wants to use them.

JohnW · 14-02-2007, 12:35

When we were infants, probably, most of our mothers were not at work all the time and spent quality time with us in those, our most impressionable, years. When we reached school age then our mothers had more time, if they wanted, to enter the workforce. I'm not trying to be sexist but babies need their mothers early on in life, it is when their personalities are formed and they learn the most about how to behave from the examples set. I am not against women in the workforce, they make an invaluable contribution, but, in my opinion, they have more important things to attend to, during the first five years or so, of their children's lives. Of course, since women's liberation, we have arrived at a stage where many families cannot afford to exist on one wage. Society has made the rod for its own back.

Billcat · 14-02-2007, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by panther

well most parents dont give a damn about their kids, thats why the kids are doing what they doing, they get away with what they want, and I believe that parents are to blame!

Nonsense! Most parents are fine and so are most kids.

Billcat · 14-02-2007, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnW

I'm not trying to be sexist but babies need their mothers early on in life, it is when their personalities are formed and they learn the most about how to behave from the examples set.

Looks, then, like you managed to be sexist without "trying!"

I know families where Mom goes to work and the kids are just fine, and others where Mom stays home and the kids are a complete mess. Frankly, I think we falsely romanticize the era when it was normal for Moms to have no better employment than as unpaid, homebound cooks, cleaning ladies, and laundresses! It includes the unstated assumption that women are less than equal to men, in that it assigns the roles solely based on gender. There were problems aplenty at that time, but society chose not to discuss them.

I also know families, where Dad does most of the nurturing, that are quite successful.

It's not so much a matter of one parent or the oher staying home as it is how they spend time with their kids. My parents did a few things that I think really worked - they always limited our TV viewing, we ususally sat down as a family for supper (no TV), they read to us and made sure that we had reading material that interested us, they set expectations, they let us earn privileges and some (not all) of the things we desired, and (most importantly) they listened. Abusive techniques, such as spankings and thrashings, were not a featured part of the program. Generally speaking, negative reinforcement is not a good tool to train any animal; why then do so many folks believe that it is appropriate for humans? Answer - because applying negative reinforcement is the lazy way out, as it takes less time and effort.

"One size fit all" approaches to life usually don't work. My mother was much happier and, therefore, able to do a better job as a mother, when she was working.

panther · 14-02-2007, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billcat

Nonsense! Most parents are fine and so are most kids.

yeh and most are not!

lindsay ormerod · 15-02-2007, 20:25

It's not rocket science;if you are a well-mannered,polite and civil parent with regard for others then your children will learn from your example and will NOT grow up into the nauseating chav scum that currently make our streets unsafe and sit on buses blaring out nonsense tunes from their phones at full blast! Having recently been unfortunate enough to see the inside of the Job centre for only the 2nd time in my life I was appalled at the attitude of some of the "younger " claimants and I may add that the attitude of the staff there differed greatly too;the lady helping me was courteous and really helpful;the lady opposite having to deal with a tracksuitted Waynetta Slob lookalike was giving her short shrift over her lack of effort to look for work and then gave her a reading test to see if she could actually understand a vacancy advert!
I know appearance isn't everything but these kids are really not helping themselves and you just know that 3 years down the line that girl will be on the council house list,a toddler round her knees and another on the way,still arguing the toss with the benefits office. Grrr.

cashman · 15-02-2007, 20:57

It's not rocket science;if you are a well-mannered,polite and civil parent with regard for others then your children will learn from your example and will NOT grow up into the nauseating chav scum that currently make our streets unsafe and sit on buses blaring out nonsense tunes from their phones at full blast!-----thats the real nub of the problem in a nutshell.also its the minority getting the majority a bad name.

Wynonie Harris · 15-02-2007, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnW

When we were infants, probably, most of our mothers were not at work all the time and spent quality time with us in those, our most impressionable, years. When we reached school age then our mothers had more time, if they wanted, to enter the workforce. I'm not trying to be sexist but babies need their mothers early on in life, it is when their personalities are formed and they learn the most about how to behave from the examples set. I am not against women in the workforce, they make an invaluable contribution, but, in my opinion, they have more important things to attend to, during the first five years or so, of their children's lives. Of course, since women's liberation, we have arrived at a stage where many families cannot afford to exist on one wage. Society has made the rod for its own back.

I'm sure countries like Holland, Denmark, Sweden and Finland are just as "liberated" and have many mothers going out to work, yet they have managed to top the quality of life for children table. So I don't see how the two are connected. Rather, it's they way kids are brought up, regardless of whether the mother goes out to work or not.

A large and growing minority of parents in this country couldn't care less about how their kids turn out and, in fact, set a poor example to them with their own selfish, anti-social behaviour. This trend has been increasing for awhile now and is starting to have serious consequences for the UK. Go out into any city or town centre on a weekend night and you will see scenes of widespread yobbishness and casual violence that you simply do not see in other developed countries - something that, personally, makes me feel ashamed to be British at times. This is the end result of the poor upbringing that many inflict on their children in this country.

Billcat · 19-02-2007, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by panther

yeh and most are not!

My, what a "brilliant" response! Any other "pearls" you care to offer? LOL!

Mancie · 19-02-2007, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Go out into any city or town centre on a weekend night and you will see scenes of widespread yobbishness and casual violence that you simply do not see in other developed countries - something that, personally, makes me feel ashamed to be British at times. This is the end result of the poor upbringing that many inflict on their children in this country.

This would never have happend in the 50's and 60's or 70's eh Wynonie?..the 50's Notting Hill riots.. peolple stabbed to death... mods n rockers in the 60's.. skinheads in the 70's.. untold deaths from ramapaging footy hooligans in the 80's.. was this the fault of the parents?... but of course these things did not happen, in those days we were all civilised and it was all great fun

Wynonie Harris · 19-02-2007, 22:04

Of course there were violent incidents in previous eras, but not to the same extent that there is now. You could go out for a night on the town in the 60's and the most you'd see is the odd scuffle. Go out into the middle of Manchester late on a Friday or Saturday night and see the mayhem that ensues these days. Are you seriously saying that violent crime hasn't got worse over the last 50 years?

Mancie · 19-02-2007, 22:19

I don't agree Wynonie.. gun crime as involves shooting people has increased.. but as for what may be called anti social crime has not.. the 70's 80's and 90's were more violent as regards violent crimes than today.. when I say violent crimes I do include hooligans and muggers.. was it the case that these offenders were brought up by bad parents in the 50's and 60's?

Wynonie Harris · 19-02-2007, 22:31

So basically, what you're saying is that violent crime not involving the use of firearms is at roughly the same level as it was in 1957 or 1967? In fact, that there are less violent crimes than there were in 1977? Well, it doesn't seem that way to me. When I go out these days, there seems to be a lot more violence around than there was in the 70's. And, yes, I would blame the parents of violent criminals.