Oh Hum its a funny old world

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

It's the way you tell em!

Amazing! Almost lucid. Perhaps you should check to see if you have a brown mark on your neck. This would mean that you are down a quart.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Guinness

Case in point...both happened tonight

value, worth and fair

Football star helps the homeless - CNN.com

overpaid and worthless

Joey Barton in bizarre Twitter Darwinism rant - Mirror Online

Hmm..Johnny Foreigner with humility and humanity and the Brit with the I'm alright Jack stuff the rest of you attitude

and your point, you still haven't answered me on what YOU would have done if YOU had been gifted enough to be a professional sportsman, but people of your ilk never do answer when questioned, because you can't find a believable answer

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by jaysay

and your point, you still haven't answered me on what YOU would have done if YOU had been gifted enough to be a professional sportsman, but people of your ilk never do answer when questioned, because you can't find a believable answer

I'd like to think that I'd be more of an Angel Rangel than a Joey Barton. Which is kind of my point.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Guinness

I'd like to think that I'd be more of an Angel Rangel than a Joey Barton. Which is kind of my point.

No you decried all sportsmen for, as you say earning £500 an hour, but I asked you if you were a gifted sportsman whether you'd turn down that obscene amount of money, yes or no, simple question, can't make it any simpler if I try

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Eric

Amazing! Almost lucid. Perhaps you should check to see if you have a brown mark on your neck. This would mean that you are down a quart.

Admirable brevity. It usually takes you a lot more than two lines to give us the benifit of your more profound thoughts.
I must admit, though, I'm slightly dissapointed.

I'm always a little surprised when anyone can still express any sort of approval for Stalin or the communist way of doing things. We should remember he killed far more of his own people than the Germans ever managed and at far less cost. Letting millions of people starve to death costs nothing . Perhaps if he hadn't decimated the USSR they would have won the war quicker and at less cost.
Throughout his reign left wing armchair politicians in the West expressed admiration for him from the comfort of their safe little homes.
Some people still ignore history.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by jaysay

No you decried all sportsmen for, as you say earning £500 an hour, but I asked you if you were a gifted sportsman whether you'd turn down that obscene amount of money, yes or no, simple question, can't make it any simpler if I try

Nope, I used the golfer vs care worker to illustrate a point about a gap in earnings, which is where the debate was at that time. I didn't decry all sportsmen in any of my posts.

You already know the answer to the question you pose...NO! I wouldn't turn down an obscene amount of money, I'd be an idiot or a liar if I said I would.

Does that mean I'd agree with it, of course not, because if I truly believed that I got £500 an hour for wearing a hat whilst a woman caring for 12 people earned the same in a month was just, then I'd also be an idiot.

Thing is the money to pay the golfer is available because the company that pays him, mass produces the hats in sweat shops which pay the workers a pittance for their efforts..widening the gap.

Although I wasn't the guy who originally put those questions to Graham Jones, and I have very little truck with him as a politician, I agree with him that the pay gap between rich and poor needs addressing.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by Guinness

the pay gap between rich and poor needs addressing.

Now if only it were that simple, people paid by their worth & value as opposed to their ego ! What a pleasanter place the World would be.

[Less]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Now if only it were that simple, people paid by their worth & value as opposed to their ego ! What a pleasanter place the World would be.

Well allow me to jump on the bandwagon, I am more than willing to be a hypocrite and a betrayer of my class, (whatever that maybe),just to earn one fifth of a fifth of what his payment is, all I need to be offered is a genuine job, strangely I keep being approached to do voluntary work, somehow that doesn't keep the wolf from the door.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Guinness

Nope, I used the golfer vs care worker to illustrate a point about a gap in earnings, which is where the debate was at that time. I didn't decry all sportsmen in any of my posts.

You already know the answer to the question you pose...NO! I wouldn't turn down an obscene amount of money, I'd be an idiot or a liar if I said I would.
Then your an hypocrite
Does that mean I'd agree with it, of course not, because if I truly believed that I got £500 an hour for wearing a hat whilst a woman caring for 12 people earned the same in a month was just, then I'd also be an idiot.
Even more of a hypocrite
Thing is the money to pay the golfer is available because the company that pays him, mass produces the hats in sweat shops which pay the workers a pittance for their efforts..widening the gap.

Although I wasn't the guy who originally put those questions to Graham Jones, and I have very little truck with him as a politician, I agree with him that the pay gap between rich and poor needs addressing.
Well Jones has done little to address the situation has he

And the ethos of political persuasion you so eagerly support had quite a long time to make a start, did they, did they hell, they just stuck their noses as far into the through as they could. Even Jones will have increased his income three or four times all told since entering Parliament, not only that he retained his county council seat saying he would not claim any payments he was entitled too, until he thought nobody was looking them started to claim. left wing politicians have always been good with the mouth, but do very little when they have the power to do so. Just one question these

[Less]

Originally Posted by jaysay

And the ethos of political persuasion you so eagerly support had quite a long time to make a start, did they, did they hell, they just stuck their noses as far into the through as they could. Even Jones will have increased his income three or four times all told since entering Parliament, not only that he retained his county council seat saying he would not claim any payments he was entitled too, until he thought nobody was looking them started to claim. left wing politicians have always been good with the mouth, but do very little when they have the power to do so. Just one question these

Somehow I reckon the real Tories have the advantage private school taught to keep the hoy poloy down and know how to keep the working class Tories in place.
A case of nip back paddywack give the dog a bone, whilst they live higher on the hog than most of us imagine.
There is if you notice a class that can attend every sporting event no matter where no matter when, horse racing for example, I wonder, which party supports them or has them supporting it?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Less

Somehow I reckon the real Tories have the advantage private school taught to keep the hoi polloi down and know how to keep the working class Tories in place.
A case of nip back paddywack give the dog a bone, whilst they live higher on the hog than most of us imagine.
There is if you notice a class that can attend every sporting event no matter where no matter when, horse racing for example, I wonder, which party supports them or has them supporting it?

That's just it Less I don't give a toss, never have never will, no point, more interested in my lot, couldn't care less about the others, sorry if that's hard to understand, but it certainly stops me getting my knickers in a twist whenever Mr Ed shouts posh lad across the commons floor at Cameron, whilst thinking I wish I was in his place rolling those big green eyes, envy must be very hard to swallow and it shows on the faces of Miliband Balls Cooper and the rest of the opposition front bench

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by jaysay

And the ethos of political persuasion you so eagerly support had quite a long time to make a start, did they, did they hell, they just stuck their noses as far into the through as they could. Even Jones will have increased his income three or four times all told since entering Parliament, not only that he retained his county council seat saying he would not claim any payments he was entitled too, until he thought nobody was looking them started to claim. left wing politicians have always been good with the mouth, but do very little when they have the power to do so. Just one question these

And we go full circle to the standard 13 years of labour rule argument.

If the rest of your post about GJ were true, which I don't think it is, why would it bother you so much...after all in your ethos its not about being paid your value and worth but getting what you can by any means as long as its legal, and you also forfeit the right to criticise Gordon Brown for non attendance or in fact any MP who makes a spurious expense claim as long as they dont break the law. You can't have it both ways

[Less]

Originally Posted by jaysay

That's just it Less I don't give a toss, never have never will, no point, more interested in my lot, couldn't care less about the others, sorry if that's hard to understand, but it certainly stops me getting my knickers in a twist whenever Mr Ed shouts posh lad across the commons floor at Cameron, whilst thinking I wish I was in his place rolling those big green eyes, envy must be very hard to swallow and it shows on the faces of Miliband Balls Cooper and the rest of the opposition front bench

can't see anything in my post about me being envious of them, if anything was sorry for the fact you've spent most of your life being a hard worker blinded by their bull.
I have never been a member of a political party, as with sex, I've got my leanings but prefer to take on what I can trust, (less of a pain in the arse).

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

Admirable brevity. It usually takes you a lot more than two lines to give us the benifit of your more profound thoughts.
I must admit, though, I'm slightly dissapointed.

I'm always a little surprised when anyone can still express any sort of approval for Stalin or the communist way of doing things. We should remember he killed far more of his own people than the Germans ever managed and at far less cost. Letting millions of people starve to death costs nothing . Perhaps if he hadn't decimated the USSR they would have won the war quicker and at less cost.
Throughout his reign left wing armchair politicians in the West expressed admiration for him from the comfort of their safe little homes.
Some people still ignore history.

Some people still ignore history, and some, you seem to be one, just don't understand it. You seem to be fixated on Stalin as a socialist. I don't think anyone on here sees Stalin as anything other than a lunatic. Many probably look at the Soviet Union and see State Capitalism, not socialism or communism. The Soviet Union became a form of Timocracy when Stalin took over, passed quickly into tyranny, and then swiftly degenerated.

I'm relieved to see that you don't discount the Soviet contribution to winning WWll, a testimony to the determination and fortitude of the Russian people rather than to their politics.


In spite of its faults the Soviet Union has had some remarkable achievements: Operation Bagration, which destroyed Army Group Centre and effectively neutered the Wehrmacht; the top tank (according to the Hitory Channels' list), the T 34; the top combat rifle (same source), the AK 47 ... we could do with a few milliion less of those in the world; the first man in space, Dan Dare; the first woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova; the most reliable and best designed automobile, the Lada; great vodka; fantastic hot-looking women ... I'm getting carried away here.

Oh, the next bus leaving for the International Space Station will be a Soyuz.

[Gordon Booth]

I'm afraid it's typical of those who has spent their lives isolated in academia that they feel there is their view(the correct one) and the views of those who don't agree with them(through lack of understanding, poor things). That's one of the problems of our education system today.
Of course the USSR had some remarkable achievements, if you keep a state of almost 300 million people short of food,clothing,housing etc and work them like slaves there will be lots of money left for some 'remarkable achievements'.
For almost 30 years Stalin was the USSR and the USSR was Stalin. If Stalin was a lunatic(agreed) he was ruling a lunatic state because the two were one.
You concentrate on a few physical achievements-the nations efforts and sacrifices during the war-yes. The T34-yes(well designed for massive rapid production to overwhelm the Panzers). The Ak47-yes(brilliantly designed for the job it was intended for). The first man and woman in space-yes. The Lada- well, you can't get them all right, can you?Vodka- I like it. The Soyuz- a marvellous workhorse for space.

But lets look at how the USSR(don't just blame Stalin) treated its reason for existing- its people.
Between 3 and 10 million people starved to death under the 'Collectivization of Agriculture' policy .
Two and a half million peasants who didn't starve exiled to clear the land.
3.7 million sentenced for 'revolutionary crimes' in 2 years,0.6 million of them shot, 2.4 million sent to labour camps.
The 'Great Purge'-1.5 million arrested, 700,000 of them shot.
80,000 of the top military and its officers shot because Stalin was worried about them. Leaving the armed forces without experienced leadership just before a war started.

You quote a few physical achievements- I quote the price the people paid. The price was far in excess of the achievements. And the Soyuz, the man and woman in space, most of its post war achievements, destroyed it by bankrupting it.
Little to praise or admire.