One Step Too Far

[kash]

I don't think you'd have what it takes to not follow it and to turn your back on religion.

its not a matter of having what it takes to turn my back on Islam. i want Islam to be a large part of my life because Islam isn't just a religion its a way of life.

[katex]

Originally Posted by kash

its not a matter of having what it takes to turn my back on Islam. i want Islam to be a large part of my life because Islam isn't just a religion its a way of life.

Although not religious myself, Kash ... always thought Christianity was a way of life too .. hence the 10 Commandments, which they all try to uphold.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by deantwerpen

Hello Cashman

Thanks for your reply. I didn't mean that the term,"Asian", is derogatory. What I meant was that by referring to peoples who originate from the Indian sub-continent as Asian, IMHO gives the impression of a group of peoples separate from the rest of us in the UK. Surely it is their religion which differentiates them from other citizens of the UK, who were also born here.

I think that a start to integration would be if they thought of themselves as primarily British and not a group who are different to the rest of us. Our whole indiginous population is a mix of many people from different countries.

A final comment. The Moslem peoples should stand up and accept their responsibility for their terrorists. To hear their leaders whining that the UK's foreign policy is responsible is a total cop out. If every dis-affected group in the UK started to commit acts of violence it would result in total anarchy. I don't agree with our presence in Afghanistan or Iraq, but it doesn't make me want to blow up my fellow countrymen and women. I would rather change things by democratic means.

Thanks

you got it in one mate! from where i,m standing.

[Madhatter]

Originally Posted by kash

its not a matter of having what it takes to turn my back on Islam. i want Islam to be a large part of my life because Islam isn't just a religion its a way of life.

Of course it is because your told it should be, and therefore you feel good about yourself when it is. How many things do you do voluntarily that you don't want to do.
You do it because you want to, you want to because it makes you feel good, not doing it makes you feel bad, and this is because you are told that not doing it is bad.

Doesn't that sound like a parent teaching a kid what it can and can't do..
It's all about rules, laws, control.
The problem is theres conflict between different sets of rules.

[Madhatter]

Originally Posted by deantwerpen

To comment on the original topic of the thread:

1) I object to people who originate from the Indian sub continent being referred to as ,"Asians". It's as though they should be differentiated as a special group of people, when in fact they are they are in fact British citizens and we should refer to them as Muslims, Hindus or Sikhs, etc.

2) As one of my friends in Belfast would comment about the IRA, "They want the King's shilling but don't want the King's shilling". In other words they wanted the benefits of living in the UK, but were not fully prepared to integrate themselves and play their part in a democratic society. I can see a parallel here.

3) Living now in Blackburn, I have seen whole areas of the town turned into ethnic ghettos. This I think will lead to an eventual backlash by the currently silent indigenous population.

4) Finally I would like to repeat a reader's letter I read in the Daily Mail of Thursday last.

"Picture the scene; with my family and friends I emigrate to a Muslim country. Upon arrival we prefer not to integrate ourselves into the local community, learn the language, or be educated in the cultural ways of our new country.

Instead, after time, we demand our own church, that our children are educated in English by English speaking teachers and that Christmas and Easter replace the festivals celebrated in our new country.

Of course we’d also require a say in the country’s foreign policy where we perceive there to be persecution of non-Muslims anywhere in the world.”


All I can say is that having spent a part of my life in both India and West/East Pakistan I have little doubt that this would not be allowed. When what was formerly East Pakistan was seeking to go it alone and be called Bangladesh, there was great play of the high number of citizens, estimated to be 3,000,000 murdered by the Muslim army from West Pakistan. However what is not widely reported is that 80% of these were either Hindu, Christian or other non Muslim religions and this is why they were killed.

I agree with that, It's well thought out and written.
My grandad was polish, bu I don't think of my self as a pole, I'm british, and I live as any other person does, I support this country, and would fight for this country when it comes to it if I'm alive.
Maybe it's different for me, cos we don't get pockets of people living in groups seperating themselves building there own church's, This is only a small town, and what non english we do have here just integrate in. We've never had greats amount of any people originating from any country until recently and ironically they are poles. I wish I'd learned the language better now, I never thought we'd get invaded by poles in this country. They just integrate though, get what ever job is on offer and do it without moaning. One group have set up their own building company, excellent quality too.

I can't help thinking that the damage is done, by letting groups of people however you wish to group them, take over there own area of a town or city, the seeds have been set, towns and cities grow and develop.

[garinda]

Did a lot of recent immigrants chose to live in ghettos here, or did we force them too because they feel safer?

After all lots of Brits move to Spain, live in little Britain enclaves, never learn the language and probably never speak to their Spanish townsfolk.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Deantwerpen, I think I have said all of the things you say in your posts......and as far as calling people from the Indian sub-continent Asians - well, that is factual........I would call someone from Australia, Australian because that is their country of origin....now I know that you may say that some of these 'Asians' were born here so I should be calling them British....but they would find it far more derogatory if I called them coloured or perhaps Anglo-Asians. But the rest of your post is spot on.

I too, can see a time when Britain is mainly muslim, hopefully I will be shoving the daisies up by then.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Garinda, no-one forces any immigrants to live where they do. They choose to live in and among the people who they feel they have most in common with.
Unfortunately this does not facilitate integration. I have a friend who is a district nurse in Oldham and there are some areas where Asian youths stand on the streets and tell visiting white people they will not be welcome in 'their' area,this is done in an intimidating manner.

[Gayle]

Playing devil's advocate here for a second - can we not also blame the groups of any race living in 'ghettos' on the fact that white people choose to seperate from their families whereas 'asians' for want of a better name choose to live close to their parents? It means that 'white' people disperse amongst other groups and don't know their neighbours whereas the 'asian' folk have stronger communities.

[Madhatter]

Well as I said My grandad was polish and I've got a polish name but I don't get labeled polish. Maybe if poles were blue with yellow dots so that people could place where my origins are I would get called a pole.
I see you point rindy, but then they choose to go to cities were they have to. As was pointed out earlier to me, A lot of these polish girls go to london to work, cant find any and end up as prostitutes, is that our fault or there fault for going where there is no work and no where to live. If they ventured out in to the rest of the country and mixed more they'd get treated better, have better jobs, even their own business, even if thats a brothel if thats what they want, and they'd be more accepted by people who see them as people instead of someone from another country. they can also put more in to the community, instead of a community thats just for them.

[Madhatter]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Playing devil's advocate here for a second - can we not also blame the groups of any race living in 'ghettos' on the fact that white people choose to seperate from their families whereas 'asians' for want of a better name choose to live close to their parents? It means that 'white' people disperse amongst other groups and don't know their neighbours whereas the 'asian' folk have stronger communities.

Exactly why it's wrong, asians have stronger communities, they put nothing in to mixed communities, only a community full of fellow 'asians'. They segregate themselves, they are building cities within cities and now want thier own laws, churches, holidays,burial grounds. I do live close to my family, so I haven't chose to seperate,I do know my neighbours, I do live in a community, but that community isn't polish. As I said there are more poles moving here but tehy don't pocket themselves, they go where they can get a flat.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Madhatter

Exactly why it's wrong, asians have stronger communities, they put nothing in to mixed communities, only a community full of fellow 'asians'. They segregate themselves, they are building cities within cities and now want thier own laws, churches, holidays,burial grounds. I do live close to my family, so I haven't chose to seperate,I do know my neighbours, I do live in a community, but that community isn't polish. As I said there are more poles moving here but tehy don't pocket themselves, they go where they can get a flat.

Why is it wrong that children should choose to live near their parents? Surely, the sense of family and the strength of support is a good thing?

[Margaret Pilkington]

People choose the location of their homes for very many reasons......access to public transport, jobs, schools, churches, shops, leisure faclities etc.....neighbourhoods all have reputations....and there are some places where the houses are cheap because the location leaves something to be desired.
I have lived in the same house for 40 years....so i know most of the people in the local community....we have a good neighbourhood network.
We watch out for one another....and help each other where possible.
So although I don't live close to my family, our little community is a bit like family.

[bullseyebarb]

What you have over there is balkanization, with the hostility that goes along with it. Europe appears to be in even worse shape.

[morgan_brotherz]

Originally Posted by kash

I do have a choice and that choice is to follow Islam. the law isn't the main thing in my life stopping me from doing things, its Islam.

eg drinking alcohol is legal and pubs can be open 24hrs and thankfully Islam prohibits alcohol. I also dont believe in sex before marriage. drugs and fags are also off the list for me, all thanks to Islam.

i wonder if any of you have actually sat down and had a good conversation with a 'practising' muslim and see what they have to say.

Can I ask why certain Muslim individuals believe it is their duty to Islam to blow themselves and many other innocent people up?