Onward Christian Soldiers. - Page 4

woody · 04-11-2005, 01:47

i feel born again! maybe i should join a religion! suggestions, anyone? har har har

garinda · 04-11-2005, 01:49

Dear Doug, I know very well the ethnic diversity that goes to make up this country. I actually wrote my one and only letter aged sixteen in 1981, to the Observer about this very issue. It was in answer to someone from the National Front, who the previous week was trying to make the point that the British race was 'pure'.

I'm glad to report that the death threats I received still haven't shut me up.

woody · 04-11-2005, 01:57

The terms 'British race' and 'pure' cannot be put together - as Britain itself is a result of every single country who's invaded us!! ;the vikings, those normandy blokes who killed our kid harold...the list goes on! (probably!)

spose what im trying to say is that britain is a country built upon cultural diversity, and that we shouldnt exploit 'differences' in culture within our own people...as evidently all these 'different' cultures make up our British culture!

SPUGGIE J · 04-11-2005, 09:01

Here here woody just a pity the bods at Westminster are throwing a deaf ear about.

Bad-Wolf · 04-11-2005, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug

Well said Woody lad.....…..Right Mr Rindy the point you’re missing is that throughout this lands history of the last 2000 years or more is that its make up of peoples has always been Multi Cultural with an actively equal and diverse religions Mix…..

I can assure you that with the possible and rather tenuous exception of the last 15 years or so, that Britain whilst indeed has had many cultural and religious groups here has been anything but tolerant. To name a few incidents. The Reformation both Catholic and Protestant, the massacre of the Jews of York and else where. Not least the Civil War which saw more bloodshead on religious grounds than either of the precious reformations, and of course last but not least the British Empire. Now do not get me worng I am not ashamed or our past, but I think is is about time people realised Britain's past has been a great many things but tolerant is not one of them!

Doug · 04-11-2005, 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad-Wolf

I can assure you that with the possible and rather tenuous exception of the last 15 years or so, that Britain whilst indeed has had many cultural and religious groups here has been anything but tolerant. To name a few incidents. The Reformation both Catholic and Protestant, the massacre of the Jews of York and else where. Not least the Civil War which saw more bloodshead on religious grounds than either of the precious reformations, and of course last but not least the British Empire. Now do not get me worng I am not ashamed or our past, but I think is is about time people realised Britain's past has been a great many things but tolerant is not one of them!

My dear friend I am in total agreement with you and would not seek to doubt what you are saying. There is little point in our leaders dragging up the past in order to make amends in the eyes of the world for the deeds of our ancestors. They are doing no more than seeking brownie points and making the rest of us bear the yoke of guilt for past deeds. We have noting to be ashamed of in our past; we ourselves were not there to participate it’s we do with the future that will be our measure…

Bad-Wolf · 04-11-2005, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug

My dear friend I am in total agreement with you and would not seek to doubt what you are saying. There is little point in our leaders dragging up the past in order to make amends in the eyes of the world for the deeds of our ancestors. They are doing no more than seeking brownie points and making the rest of us bear the yoke of guilt for past deeds. We have noting to be ashamed of in our past; we ourselves were not there to participate it’s we do with the future that will be our measure…

I think it is fair in this instance to say that you have hit the nail on the head!

Margaret Pilkington · 04-11-2005, 20:56

Doug you have echoed my point very succinctly. We can no more apologise for the doings of our forbears than fly to the moon unaided. They acted in good faith at the time. The apology does nothing at all.......and the missionaries were under the impression that they were doing good works.
Maybe it was jesus who set the ball rolling by telling the apostles to be 'fishers of men'. Most organised religions are on the lookout for converts.....why should christianity be any different?
I just think it is a bit rich for the Archbishop of Canterbury to be getting into these sad PC issues.

Doug · 04-11-2005, 22:52

Thank you Margaret. He would certainly be better off tending his flock and ensuring that Christianity and its values are up held in the face of the pressures of the modern world.

SPUGGIE J · 05-11-2005, 11:35

Unfotunately for us the church is becocoming more and more involved in politics with an outcome that could make the problems ith race and culture more prefound. Until they butt out and do what they are there to do thesituation as it stands will only get worse. Hisotically when the church and politics mix mix there is all hell let loose and it the innocent common person that looses. It is time for Mr and Mrs Common to stand up and tell them what they think.

WillowTheWhisp · 07-11-2005, 14:10

As Doug and Margaret both so rightly say we cannot apologise for the actions of our ancestors, or in some cases not even our ancestors but just people who happened to live then in a country we inhabit now. We are not responsible for anything done by people in the past any more than any of us are responsible for what somebody in the next town, next street or even next door is doing today.

We can only be responsible for ourselves. Nobody has any right to apologise to anyone on my behalf either!

I made a point about this one time when I was in Ireland, coming as I do from Accy and speaking with more than a hint of a Lancashire accent I was told by someone at a political meeting that "you people persecuted us". My response to that was that I personally have never persecuted anyone but if he implied that my ancestors may have persecuted his ancestors I had to point out that at the time some of my ancestors could very well have been alongside some of his ancestors on the receiving end of some persecuting. It doesn't do to jump to wild conclusions.

Margaret Pilkington · 07-11-2005, 20:57

I am getting just a bit fed up of folk apologising for our traditions and cultural heritage......because it might upset some incomers......when you question the said incomers......they are not offended at all.
I know we are not a pure race and our culture and traditions have evolved over the centuries......and will probably continue to do so.....if people would only stop trying to influence and manipulate artificially how this happens, we would all be much happier. All this meddling does is to throw racism into bas relief.....which makes it much more of a contentious topic. British people are extremely tolerant of other cultures and religions......and I am talking about NOW.......not centuries ago.

Bad-Wolf · 11-11-2005, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

Unfotunately for us the church is becocoming more and more involved in politics with an outcome that could make the problems ith race and culture more prefound. Until they butt out and do what they are there to do thesituation as it stands will only get worse. Hisotically when the church and politics mix mix there is all hell let loose and it the innocent common person that looses. It is time for Mr and Mrs Common to stand up and tell them what they think.

Exactly what sort of repressive regeme do you want. One where no one and no institution may speak there mind. How do you think people would react if they said trade unions or moslems or any other group should keep there mouths shut. We live in a free society where we are free to express our beliefs. Supress one and you will have to supress everyone.

Like any other individual or institution the Church and its members have every right to speak its mind on political issues whether you agree with it or not. If it has an opinion it is entitiled to express it.

As for getting on with what they are supposed to do, well they are. I suggest you actually learn what the church is there for. When you do, you will find it is not just for weddings, baptisms and funerals. It is also there for speaking out against what it considers to be wrong and speaking for what it considers to be right. This will not change nor should it!

This is one of the many tasks given them by its founder. If people do not like it then its too bad.

SPUGGIE J · 11-11-2005, 13:35

All religions have their political side and always will but there has to be a balance. Is the govenment opposition in parliment or the pulpit? Not against people speaking up I just believe its best done in neutral surroundings.

Bad-Wolf · 11-11-2005, 16:21

I have to disagree! It is more than just a political side. Religion is by its very nature political.

As for the pulpit, the Churches, regardless of denomination have every right to address whatever issue to their congragtions, they have every right to influence there members on whatever subject in whatever fashion they see fit!

Where politics is concerned there can be no neutral ground!