Organ Donation

[Margaret Pilkington]

Well, on that one we will have to differ Steve.
I think the intention is good, but the execution is flawed.
Consent should always be informed and sought, it should never be presumed.
My earthly overcoat does not belong to the government...and while, once dead I won't need it...that does not mean the government can have it.

[Wynonie Harris]

The government won't have it, Margaret, seriously ill people who want a chance to keep on living will have it (or at least the useable bits of it!). However, it's a personal choice. For myself, I'm far more concerned that any property or assets that I leave behind go to my loved ones and not the government. As for my body, they can do what they want with it and if any of it can be of use to someone else, that's fine by me.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

The government won't have it, Margaret, seriously ill people who want a chance to keep on living will have it (or at least the useable bits of it!). However, it's a personal choice. For myself, I'm far more concerned that any property or assets that I leave behind go to my loved ones and not the government. As for my body, they can do what they want with it and if any of it can be of use to someone else, that's fine by me.

Nowt wrong wi that its yer own choice,mine is same as MrsPs,

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

The government won't have it, Margaret, seriously ill people who want a chance to keep on living will have it (or at least the useable bits of it!). However, it's a personal choice. For myself, I'm far more concerned that any property or assets that I leave behind go to my loved ones and not the government. As for my body, they can do what they want with it and if any of it can be of use to someone else, that's fine by me.

Ok, so it won't go to the government, but it is government initiative to solve the low levels of organ donation.
It will be the government who will change the law which makes a deceased's body available for the harvesting of organs without real consent.
They will assume that if you do not opt out(through inertia) that you consent.
That is NOT consent. It is unethical.

Does it not make you uncomfortable that if they assume ownership of your remains, then they may assume your consent over other issues?

Inertia is a ploy used by commercial enterprises...they figure that if you do not act, then you are OK to fall into line.

I get that there are people out there who need organs to be donated in order to live.
I worked in the NHS for almost thirty years, so of course I know what a lack of resources(in this case, organs) means in real terms.
All that said, I do not think this is the way to address the issue.
The way forward is to get people to WANT to donate their organs after death.
The way to do this is education...and having the awkward conversation about death.

And yes, of course it is your personal choice Steve...as long as you are allowed to make that choice.

[Wynonie Harris]

What I'm uncomfortable with is the fact that there are people with long and fruitful lives ahead of them dying because of a lack of available organs, caused, not because people have some strongly held principle, but simply through sheer apathy and inertia. As far as I'm concerned, the change in the law would be a good one simply because it will make more organs available and thus save lives. At the same time, people like yourself who feel strongly against it will have the freedom to opt out. To me that's a win-win situation.

[Neil]

I'll be dead so won't need my body, someone else might as well have any bits that are of use to them.

You carry a donor card because you want to save lives with your bits but if the law is changed to do what you already want to then you will opt out. I've read it a few times and it still makes no sense to me. Looks like you just want to be anti-government and pretend there is some strange principal involved.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by Neil

You carry a donor card because you want to save lives with your bits but if the law is changed to do what you already want to then you will opt out..

A normal reaction to being forced in my mind, if you give to a charity that is your choice, but when someone comes along & says you must that puts a completely different aspect on the issue, the same goes for your body.

I have never personally carried a donor card, but I've given blood on numerous occasions, that hasn't been an issue, but for me there is an underlying uncomfortable feeling about some "official" entity deciding what is to be done with my worldly remains, If I haven't decided by the time I've shuffled off this mortal coil, then the decision should lie with my family/dependants, not the government.

[monkey hanger]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

A normal reaction to being forced in my mind, if you give to a charity that is your choice, but when someone comes along & says you must that puts a completely different aspect on the issue, the same goes for your body.

think its all about what you say dave. until yesterday i for one didn,t know you could go on line to donate any parts of your body that is needed. more publicity needed about organ donation for people to decide for themselves instead of the big hammer approach by government who know all where we all know nowt. think a lot more people will follow margarets line and opt out just to show em two fingers.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Neil

I'll be dead so won't need my body, someone else might as well have any bits that are of use to them.

You carry a donor card because you want to save lives with your bits but if the law is changed to do what you already want to then you will opt out. I've read it a few times and it still makes no sense to me. Looks like you just want to be anti-government and pretend there is some strange principal involved.

Looks to me like you are nowt but a government arse kisser.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Neil

I'll be dead so won't need my body, someone else might as well have any bits that are of use to them.

You carry a donor card because you want to save lives with your bits but if the law is changed to do what you already want to then you will opt out. I've read it a few times and it still makes no sense to me. Looks like you just want to be anti-government and pretend there is some strange principal involved.

Neil, there is a principle involved and it is not strange at all...it is about the state(rather than government) owning your earthly remains.
It is about assuming consent rather than actually seeking consent.
And looking back perhaps using the term government was not quite the right term...perhaps the word 'state' would have been more appropriate...and NO I am not anti government, or for that matter anti state. I just do not agree with the state owning your remains....which is what they are actually saying if thiis legislation goes through.
It is not my way of sticking two fingers up to the establishment either....it is me deciding that the state does not have a say in what happens to my remains.

Now, if that doesn't worry you(but I think it should) you really will not get my point however much I try to explain my motives.
(what other things might the state decide that you have given consent to, because you haven't opted out of something. It all seems rather sinister to me)
If the state wants more people to donate organs then they should make them WANT to donate....they should educate folk in how their gift of body parts after death can give comfort in a time of sadness.
I get all that...I really do.
I have seen first hand how illness and life shortening disease can affect lives....But I resent the heavy handedness of this proposed legislation.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by cashman

Looks to me like you are nowt but a government arse kisser.

Hahaha, some appear to be anti-government just for the hell of it

[Neil]

Maybe they should go further and not let people opt out unless they also opt out of NHS care.

If you want the NHS to fix you then you have to agree to give the NHS the bits they need to fix others

[Margaret Pilkington]

Hang on there Neil...haven't we through contributions, paid into this organisation...we are not required to donate our organs to get care....and what about all those who get care and have paid absolutely nothing at all into the kitty.
How would this system work...would it be...you need a new hip, that'll cost you a kidney. You need a new knee. that will be both corneas???

If this comment was made as a 'tongue in cheek' thing, you need to perhaps tell us that.

Are you telling us that the NHS owns us rather than the state.

Maybe the day is coming when all new borns are chipped like puppies...just to keep track of where the organs that belong to the state are(!)

[Neil]

The way it would work is simple, once you're dead if any of your bits can be used to save a life then they are used.

[Margaret Pilkington]

without consent this is unethical.