Oswaldtwistle Civic Theatre

[Acrylic-bob]

Gayle, I think that you had better take a look at the Haworth Art Gallery post before you answer this one.

[Acrylic-bob]

Has Gayle fallen off the planet? Hellooooo, anyone out there?????

[garinda]

What's the current situation with the proposed new carpark on the old Peel Court site? Surely it'll be much nedded with the increased footfall because of the arts centre.

Have the plans been passed?

[Gayle]

I’ve taken so long to reply to this for a few reasons.

1. I wasn’t sure that anything I said would be believed or accepted as it’s very easy for some people to take a negative stance.
2. It’s very hard to express yourself on a forum like this, if I phrase something slightly ambiguously or confusing, I know it will be picked up and picked apart by some people.
3. Finally, I knew it wouldn’t be a short reply and I didn’t want to blaze into it and miss something out so that I could be accused of ‘hiding’ or ‘omitting important facts’.

So, here goes

Originally Posted by Acrylic-Bob

Oh I see, the bid failed and we don't qualify for "great art for all". Why does that not surprise me.

We didn’t get the £1.6m but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t have ‘great art for all’. This is the flaw with publicising a funding bid too early. The media made a big deal about it and yes, it was nice for the council to say that they were going for the bid but ultimately we only ever had a ‘decent’ chance of getting it. (Same applied with the bid for Rhyddings Park that was a bid to a heritage pot). There were £540m worth of bids submitted for the pot and the lottery only had £190m to hand out. We went into it knowing that the application we were submitting was shoehorned to fit the funding pot and not a perfect match. So, instead being given credit for giving it a shot in the outside chance we might get it we have a ‘failed’ bid on our hands.

The funding pot was not aimed at the arts, it was aimed at community centres. Whilst the Civic will be come a Arts Centre for the community, it was still a bit like trying to fit a round peg in a square hole.

But that’s what happens with lottery bids and if you look at the statistics up and down the county, only about 25% actually get the funding. We were going for £1.6m but in fact the lottery really wanted to support bigger, more impressive bids i.e. the £5m that it gave to the new facility in Blackburn. There again you have another possible reason we didn’t get it – why give us £1.6m when they’re ploughing £5m into a nearby town especially when they needed to spread the £190m throughout the country?

Originally Posted by Acrylic-Bob

Run for profit. I can't criticise the hope but I do think that it is a pretty forlorn one. the words HBC, Business and Profit do not naturally follow one another in anything like logical association.

I’ve been working on this for two years. If truth be known I’ve actually been working on it for over 8 years. I first lobbied the council to do this when I was pregnant with Zack and he turned 8 this January. Over the last two years we’ve done our sums, we’ve written many reports, we’ve looked at it from all angles and we believe it is a viable project.

I guess the only way that I can convince you that I have confidence that this will work is to go into my CV. Before I worked in the Arts I worked for a pharmaceutical company. When I took up my last job in that industry I inherited a department that was making £7m turnover, when I left a few years later it was making a £17m turnover.

I am leading on the Arts Centre project and I have every faith that my figures are robust. Actually, just one correction to what I said before, it will be a ‘not for profit’ organisation. However, that doesn’t mean that it will make a loss, it has to make a profit to be ploughed back into it.

I have spoken to 100s of people who believe in what we’re trying to do. I have spoken to the police, to schools, to local people, to members of community groups, to young people and to many more to find out whether there is the belief that this centre will work. And people are inspired and enthused by the idea.

Originally Posted by Gayle

Whilst I agree that you could give a talentless oik a video camera and you will not create Ingmar Bergman, the opposite also applies that if you give someone with talent a camera there is the outside possibility that you might create the next Danny Boyle.

Originally Posted by Acrylic-Bob

I would have thought that the odds are better in playing the Lottery.

I have to completely disagree with you on this. There are a lot of talented people in the area who don’t have the outlets for their talent or sometimes the tools that they need to fulfil their destiny. Yes, there will be a lot of people who use the centre purely as a diversionary tactic i.e. something to do with your mates instead of hanging around the streets or watching tv, but equally there will be a lot of the talent channelled so that people can begin to believe that there is a future in this field for them.

We’re suffering in this area from a brain drain, with people going away to college and not returning because there aren’t the interesting jobs in this area for them. This is an opportunity to bring something to the area that might inspire young people.

Originally Posted by Acrylic-Bob

Are you offering Vocational Qualifications?

Not immediately but within a couple of years. We are currently offering Arts Awards which allow young people to get the equivalent of a GCSE. We will also be taking on one modern apprentice who will get their qualifications at Accrington and Rossendale College.

Originally Posted by Acrylic-Bob

How do you think Local Drama have managed to put shows on for the last century without passing on stage management and production skills? Of course it is every bit the same old, same old. except with a bit of new equipment

Local drama groups are great and provide a creative outlet for lots of people. However, if you look at most local drama groups, the average age is usually in the mid 40s, if you’re lucky. This is about getting young people into the centre and helping them to develop their careers in the arts. It’s about training, mentoring, passing down of skills and learning whilst having fun at the same time. It’s not just about performing arts. One of the first things that we’re doing is a photography project. We’re starting some of these projects now so that when the centre opens it will open with a core group established in some of the activities, it’s an old cliché but we want to ‘hit the ground running’. The photography project involves 14 young people working with a professional photographer over two days during the Easter holidays. These 14 and 15 year olds will be learning new skills, being occupied over the holidays and working with professionals in a field that they may wish to take up professionally themselves in a few years time.

Originally Posted by Acrylic-Bob

Call it what you like and tie yourself up in knots over wehther it is correctly inclusive enough, but it won't change what it is. Short changed again.

I’m not tying myself up in knots about the name. It’s a centre for the whole of Hyndburn so therefore, the name has had Oswaldtwistle taken out of it. How can I answer your accusation that you’re being ‘short changed’? Clearly you don’t have faith in the project, well that’s fine, but a lot of people do. You’re welcome to come to the next meeting which is on 27th April at 7pm at Hippings Vale Community Centre, to join the board. I think it would be good if you did come along because if you believe that it will fail in its present format then we need people to tell us early on where we’re going wrong so that we can adjust the business plans so that it is a success. No one is going into this for it to fail, so we need to be clear about where you believe it will fail so that we can avoid that happening.

Originally Posted by Garinda

What's the current situation with the proposed new carpark on the old Peel Court site? Surely it'll be much needed with the increased footfall because of the arts centre.

Have the plans been passed?

At this moment in time, I’m not exactly sure what the situation is. It keeps going on the agenda and then being taken off. From what I understand, the Government put some funding in the budget for the Pennine Reach Transport scheme. If that scheme goes ahead then I assume the car park will go ahead as well. At the moment the land is still privately owned. As far as I know, County were looking at buying the land back. I don’t know what the status is so you’d have to ask someone else that question. Having said that, as soon as I find out more I’ll let you know.

On another thread it was asked how much I get paid. I can’t find the post to copy and paste it. My contract is for £23k per annum. This is for three specific things – developing the Arts Centre, developing Arts in the area in general and organising outdoor events. Whilst you might look at that amount and think it’s a lot, I have to justify that I have brought three times that amount of funding (from the lottery and other sources) into the area in the last year. With £25k raised already this year. In the next few weeks we’ll also find out if more funding that I’ve applied for on behalf of the park has been awarded. I more than pay for myself.

As an example. I went to a funding seminar a few weeks ago for a funding pot called Young Roots. It’s a lottery funding pot, for getting young people involved in projects looking at heritage and the history of the area they live in. Since the funding pot was launched, Hyndburn has received nothing from that pot – not one single bean. The reason is not because the groups in Hyndburn that are eligible are being turned back but because they’re not submitting the bids in the first place. Since the seminar I’ve got through phase 1 of the application process and the hope is that within three or four months the Arts Centre will be awarded £20,000 for heritage projects. That’s bringing money into the area and helping support local businesses, local services and local people. That £20,000 will buy the Arts Centre some video cameras, it will pay for professional video trainers to work with young people and it will pay for the production of professional films by young people.


Just as a final addendum to this missive, as it’s already four pages long. Although the focus of the Arts Centre will be young people, it is not solely for young people. It will be offering choirs, creative writing course, book clubs, bollywood aerobics, back to acting training and much more. It will cater for people of all ages. In fact, at the last meeting I had a group of pensioners who want to be heavily involved.


I’m not sure I can convince you of its viability but I hope I can convince you of my passion for it and my belief that this Arts Centre is long overdue in arriving and much needed.

[jaysay]

Well think you covered everything there Gayle, but no doubt there will be those who are still not satisfied

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Well think you covered everything there Gayle, but no doubt there will be those who are still not satisfied

I happened to know much of what Gayle posted recently, because she replied privately to my questions some time ago.

However, in the interests of transparency, I think people have the right to know of her appointment, and role, because it would have added weight to her earlier proclamation...

Originally Posted by Gayle

No truth in it whatsoever.

Even though it turns out she was wrong, and H.B.C. did approach L.C.C. four years ago, to look at the possibility of them taking over responsibility for the Haworth.

My only question, that remains unanswered, would be was Gayle appointed to an existing job at H.B.C., or is it a totally new creation?

I look forward to seeing a marked improvement in the quality of arts in the borough, and have no fears that she'll strive to do her best.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Garinda

My only question, that remains unanswered, would be was Gayle appointed to an existing job at H.B.C., or is it a totally new creation?

It is a new creation but it was created two years ago. When I was invited to apply for the post of Arts Consultant for the council. It did come about in a slightly roundabout way but it was all above board and completely transparent. I went to a seminar about Arts Council funding, at the same meeting was Kerry from Leisure in Hyndburn. She said she was there to find out whether the Civic Theatre would be eligible for some funding. As I had already got experience in Arts Council funding, I offered to help her with her application (for no fee). After that followed a few meetings with Steve Tanti and Cllr Britcliffe to see how I could volunteer to help. I worked with them to apply for some Arts Council funding for a consultant to complete a report about the viability of the theatre.

When the Arts Council funding was awarded there was an application process for the role of Arts Consultant. This followed all the normal rules and regulations and is completely open and was advertised. I had to apply like everyone else. I don't know who else applied as that bit was kept confidential from me (naturally as you rarely know who you're up against at an interview). I got the job and the rest as they say, is history.

Originally Posted by Garinda

I look forward to seeing a marked improvement in the quality of arts in the borough, and have no fears that she'll strive to do her best.

Thank you

Just as an addendum to this. You might ask, why after doing this for two years is there not a marked improvement already? Whilst I would (naturally) argue that there has been some improvement already, all of these things take time - time to get funding in place, time to get networks in place and time to write plans and develop the ideas. Last year was a tester with the Year of Culture events, which provided extra Arts throughout the borough and showed what could work and what doesn't. August this year will be the watershed moment as things really start to come into being when the Arts Centre opens its doors.

Funding for many projects is now in place, the building work has started (I got to chose the colour of the carpets on Thursday) and the programme of activity is starting to come together.

[garinda]

Thanks for answering my question.

I wish you continued success in improving the arts in Hyndburn, and don't doubt your determination to bring about the changes needed.

[garinda]

Ok, one last unrelated question.

Will the polling station be back in the Town Hall, after the work has finished, or will it be permanently be based at St. Paul's church?

[Acrylic-bob]

I will respond to Gayle's statement, but not tonight. I have to get up early to earn the money to pay the taxes that help to fund this latest Arty Jamboree. Strangely, Nigel Rix is very much at the front of my mind at the moment, wonder why?

[cashman]

Gayle don't knock yer salary as being large, anyone who thinks that is naive to use a kind word.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

I will respond to Gayle's statement, but not tonight. I have to get up early to earn the money to pay the taxes that help to fund this latest Arty Jamboree. Strangely, Nigel Rix is very much at the front of my mind at the moment, wonder why?

I'm so honoured that you're going to respond to my statement eventually. I was beginning to get the feeling that you'd abandoned us. And by 'us' I mean 'me' in the same way that you use the word 'us'.

You're actually starting to get offensive. Why, and on what basis, do you believe that I have anything in common with Nigel Rix?

If you honestly believe that I am the evil wicked person that you seem to think I am and if you honestly believe that I am diddling tax payers out of their hard earned cash - then come right out and say it although I'd be interested to know what evidence you think you have.

I have answered all your questions honestly. Do you have any more questions?

[Acrylic-bob]

Well now here we are, there's absolutely no reason to be so aggresively defensive Gayle dear. I was merely attempting to establish the basis for a rational discussion. As I am sure you are aware I have been absent from the site for quite some time, due to pressures of work, and so I need to get my bearings, so to speak, re the shifting palette of local alliances. I am sure you understand and will humour me.

Now then, first things first, Thank you Gayle dear, for your very kind invitation to attend your next public meeting and also for the suggestion that I might like to consider sitting on your board. It really is very sweet of you to think of me, but I am afraid I shall have to decline on this occaision. I am sure all those frightfully energetic young people you will be mixing with would not really welcome an old fogey like me pouring the cold water of reality on their lovely creative ambitions. After all, as I think I have mentioned before, my degree specialism is in Fine Art, not one of those ever so trendy new media and communications jobbies that are currently so popular. I overheard talk on the market that even Accrington and Rosendale are dishing them out now...whatever next? I know you are going to be dreadfully upset and crushed by this news, but really, once you have dried your tears and had a jolly good blow, you will realise it is probably for the best. Without wishing to blow my own trumpet here, I think I would be far more valuable as a sort of agony aunt. You know, the sort of thing old Marge Proops, bless her, used to get up to. I always find that my analysis can be much more dispassionate and clinical when performed at a distance.

Now, I was intending to do a "fisk" as I think it is called, of your splendid post concerning your new project at the civic theatre. but that could well take all night and I don't know about you dear but I am not getting any younger and time is precious, so I will try and keep this as brief and to the point as I can.

As I think I have mentioned before I cannot fault your enthusiasm dear, it does you credit, indeed you must be one of the most exhaustingly enthusiastic people at HBC, which is not a bad thing. Let's face it dear, most of them could do with either putting out to grass or having a box of Standard fireworks shoved where the sun will never shine! (please excuse the gratuitously offensive comments, I'm getting in practice for when I achieve my pension book, Most pensioners I know are content to grow old disgracefully - I intend to be spectacular and an example to all who follow!) Where was I? Oh, yes, 'enthusiasm'. A commodity to be admired and expected, certainly, but it can also be a two edged sword and lead some to putting the cart before the horse, as it were. You have to realise that you are working in a town and a borough that has never paid anything but the most insincere and insipid lip service to the notion and benefits of the Arts. I know for a fact that several former Town Clerks would happily have sold Haworth Art Gallery and its collections off to the highest bidder without batting an eye if they had thought they could have gotten away with it. But they couldn't, and the gallery has been left short of funds, direction and interest since the outbreak of World War II. For the truth of this statement you might ask Councillor Britcliffe when was the last time that the Gallery had an aquisitions fund and what it amounted to; if you think you can bear the shock! You might also bear in mind that it was the same Britcliffe who withdrew from Mid Pennine and set his face against the Panopticon project.

You seem to have this wonderfully rosy idea that a couple of video cameras and a photo exhibition will stem the tide of creative talent leaving the borough for pastures more condusive. In a borough that knows little of the Arts, and cares even less, that is a pretty forlorn hope. Even on an unlimited budget it would be an uphill struggle and would probably take more than one lifetime to accomplish. You, alas, are granted neither. I do not want to sound unduly negative here dear, but facts must be faced. For the majority of the population of Hyndburn The Arts are either what a load of toffee nosed gits up in London do or it is something that scruffy students get up to. As long as they have their flat pack furniture from Ikea, the latest CD from whatever Karaoke show the telly is pumping out at the moment and a fridge full of WKD most of them are blisfully happy. Attempting to preach to them about the value of aesthetics or that there might be an alternative way of communicating their emotions that does not involve pop music, loads of make up, clothes that barely satisfy the requirements of decency and puking most of the evening's consumption into the gutter at the end of the night, is going to be a hard call. I do not envy you, not one bit!

You made much in your post about local groups being very much in favour of the project. to be honest dear if you said you were going to lead a procession up and down Union Street with an orange on a stick you would probably get much the same response, and as for encouragement from the Police! Let me confide to you a terrible secret: the most that the police know about art is that there are certain sections of the population who, if not trying to nick it are busy defacing it, and there I am afraid their interest and understanding ends.

Has it ever occurred that you might, more profitably, try cutting your suit according to your cloth as opposed to doing it the other way round? Rather than attempt to spread a meagre budget too thinly by doing a multitude of things, Might you not be better advised to do perhaps one or two things really well? And while we are talking about budgets, you do realise that there is a General Election taking place in a few weeks, and that most of the hoo-haa surrounds the fact that both major parties dare not spell out to the electorate the exact extent of the the cuts that are going to be necessary over the coming decade. I have heard it estimated that if the country wishes to avoid outright bankruptcy that a cut in government expenditure of 50% of GDP will be required this year alone. 50% of GDP is an astronomic figure. It will involve massive unemployment on a scale not seen since the 1930's. The government has already taken massive amounts from the lottery to fund the Olympics, when the brown stuff hits the fan do you seriously consider that they will have any compunction about taking whatever is left? And when they do, where will the funding for your arts centre come from then dear?

There is so much more that I want to discuss with you but it will have to wait until next time, or this post will become unmanageable.

[Gayle]

You say you did Fine Art, yes, well so did I but I found most of the students on that course to be pompous and arrogant so switched to graphics.

You clearly don't believe this will work and I'm almost of the opinion that you actually want it to fail. You obviously don't want to get out there and actually help so that it will succeed. But that's fine, perhaps we can discuss this again in two years time when you will be free to say 'told you so' or eat humble pie.

[Acrylic-bob]

As I said in my original post, Gayle, It will not work. It will end up being just another branch of social services catering to the feckless young who cannot be bothered to get off their spotty backsides and shift for themselves. Increasingly it will be seen by the police and the probation service as a convenient place to dump the waifs and strays with which they have to deal. And then there are the walking elderly who would just like a nice tea dance or a bring and buy. In speaking of "Arts for all" and funding streams and lottery bids for this and that, beware of raising expectations that you cannot satisfy. I recall that Nigel Rix became associated in the borough with failed lottery bids, I should hate to see anyone else tarred with that brush. And remember this too, when cuts have to be made, as they will, the first to suffer is the Arts and then the Parks.

However, I am not perfect and just as capable of being in error as the next man, or woman, or person. I hope you do succeed and prove me wrong. I shall however keep a close eye on the project and we will see what develops.

You and I are destined never to see eye to eye where Art is concerned, but at least we can be civil to each other, can't we?