Oswaldtwistle War Memorial

[Gayle]

But can you understand from my perspective - I want the names to be right, but before they're up there we already know that they're going to be wrong. BTW - i'm not involved in this project at all, just from the perspective as a resident.

I realise you've got problems with people using your work and them taking the credit for it, but this wouldn't be like that would it? This would be you helping them to get it right and getting recognised for your help and support.

Presumably they haven't got your list so can't accept it at this stage.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Gayle

But can you understand from my perspective - I want the names to be right, but before they're up there we already know that they're going to be wrong. BTW - i'm not involved in this project at all, just from the perspective as a resident.

I realise you've got problems with people using your work and them taking the credit for it, but this wouldn't be like that would it?
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How would I know, I've found out different in the past. Once bitten twice shy.

This would be you helping them to get it right and getting recognised for your help and support.

Presumably they haven't got your list so can't accept it at this stage.

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No they have'nt got my list, I would want cast iron guarantees before I hand any thing over.

Retlaw.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

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No as soon as I heard that any submissions were to be put before a commitee, to decide on whether their names are added or not, then that was it as far as I was concerned.

I can't see a problem with that really.
Whats wrong with checking that the names meet the criteria?

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Neil

I can't see a problem with that really.
Whats wrong with checking that the names meet the criteria?

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I have enough experience at what I do to know they don't have the knowledge or the expertise to check what I do, as I've said before there is only one person capable of judging if my work is correct.
I don't have this problem when I get enquiries from the East Lancs at Fulwood Museum, or when the Lancs Fusiliers Museum contacts me, so why should I have to be judged by a bunch of amateurs.

Retlaw.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

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No they have'nt got my list, I would want cast iron guarantees before I hand any thing over.

Retlaw.

Are you saying that you would want cast iron guarantees that you would get all the credit and no one else would get any credit?

I tend to agree with Neil, what's the harm in checking the names and pointing out a few mistakes to them rather than handing over a full list. I'm sure they would all appreciate your guidance.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

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I have enough experience at what I do to know they don't have the knowledge or the expertise to check what I do, as I've said before there is only one person capable of judging if my work is correct.
I don't have this problem when I get enquiries from the East Lancs at Fulwood Museum, or when the Lancs Fusiliers Museum contacts me, so why should I have to be judged by a bunch of amateurs.

Retlaw.

I don't see it like this - they wouldn't be judging your work would they? You'd be judging theirs.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

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I have enough experience at what I do to know they don't have the knowledge or the expertise to check what I do, as I've said before there is only one person capable of judging if my work is correct.
I don't have this problem when I get enquiries from the East Lancs at Fulwood Museum, or when the Lancs Fusiliers Museum contacts me, so why should I have to be judged by a bunch of amateurs.

Retlaw.

Fair comment. I would have thought the checking would be more along the lines of why this person? If the answer is he was born in Ossy or lived here before the war etc then it is ok. Maybe even how do you know he is who you think he is.

Without checks someone might make a name up like Mike Hunt of Virginia Street was killed in action.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Neil

Fair comment. I would have thought the checking would be more along the lines of why this person? If the answer is he was born in Ossy or lived here before the war etc then it is ok. Maybe even how do you know he is who you think he is.
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I know who they are, from what is now regarded as historical records, whether they are old newspapers old church and school records amongst the hundred of different types of records available

I also know from what I've checked of their list,
that they dont know what their doing.
I've just checked one on that list as EDDLESTON R.
They have'nt checked properly as he was EDDLESTON John Robert who died in 1918 of T.B.. On the 1922 Roll of he is shown as EDDLESTON R. So what do they do, pick EDDLESTONE Richard, born in Gt Harwood, lived in Burnley died in Egypt.
Does that answer your questions

Without checks someone might make a name up like Mike Hunt of Virginia Street was killed in action.

Retlaw

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

I also know from what I've checked of their list,
that they dont know what their doing.
I've just checked one on that list as EDDLESTON R.
They have'nt checked properly as he was EDDLESTON John Robert who died in 1918 of T.B.. On the 1922 Roll of he is shown as EDDLESTON R. So what do they do, pick EDDLESTONE Richard, born in Gt Harwood, lived in Burnley died in Egypt.
Does that answer your questions

Yes it does.

It is a shame that the memorial will be full of errors. It does not seam worth producing the plaque if it will be inaccurate.

Maybe Hyndburn Borough Council should be discussing this with you and not the other two chaps.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Neil

Yes it does.

It is a shame that the memorial will be full of errors. It does not seam worth producing the plaque if it will be inaccurate.

Maybe Hyndburn Borough Council should be discussing this with you and not the other two chaps.

Thats upto H.B.C., there is a contact number on the Borough Council website, tried 3 times but he's never in, so I'm not wasting any more of my time and money.
Many War memorials up and down the country don't have names on, they are usually on illuminated scrolls in public libraries or town halls,
so why go for a memorial like that, just for the vandals to play on.

Retlaw.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Are you saying that you would want cast iron guarantees that you would get all the credit and no one else would get any credit?

I tend to agree with Neil, what's the harm in checking the names and pointing out a few mistakes to them rather than handing over a full list. I'm sure they would all appreciate your guidance.

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I never said any thing about me getting all the credit, I've already said I'm not interested in the praise from others. Dont put your words in my mouth or judge me by your standards.

I have no need of my work being judged by amateurs, and I have already said twice, there is only one person capable of judging my work.

Instead of ranting at me, why don't you down load a copy of the list, or get one from Ossy Library.
Just check a few yourself, then rant at the ones who created the list. Oswaldtwistle's memorial would look great with the name DruNNond on it.
Don't say it won't be, if those who created the list had just looked at what they'd done they would have seen that there is only one U in Immanuel, never mind all the other errors.
Read some of my replies in previous posts, instead of jumping on the first thing you don't agree with.

Retlaw

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Instead of ranting at me, why don't you down load a copy of the list.......Just check a few yourself

I can see that DOW stands for died if his wounds on the second line.

With silly mistakes like that I wonder how good the rest of the list is.
I also wonder what some of the links are with Ossy when addresses listed are not from Ossy - we even have things like "could have lived in Church" on the list as well as Blackpool, Accrington, Blackburn and Barnoldswick

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Neil

I can see that DOW stands for died if his wounds on the second line.

With silly mistakes like that I wonder how good the rest of the list is.
I also wonder what some of the links are with Ossy when addresses listed are not from Ossy - we even have things like "could have lived in Church" on the list as well as Blackpool, Accrington, Blackburn and Barnoldswick

The correct abbreviation for Died of Wounds is usually written D.O.W., as K.I.A., stands for Killed in Action. In the next to last columm it shows Roll of Hon, that actually refers to the 1922 list of names, and some on there are very tenuous. I once said to Bill Turner if your passing through on the train and you waved at the station master you could have your name on the memorial.

Neil, there is just one thing, where the man lived before he joined up, where his parents lived and also that roll was created in 1922, S.D.G.W., was also collecting names and addresses, thats why why on some the information is incomplete. The C.W.G., were also sending out forms to the last known address, for information on family connections, in 1918 they were also trying to compile a register of absent voters, it is claimed the men themselves filled in the forms, what puzzles me is how can men who have been dead for over two years fill in a form. People were changing addresses, dieing, or just ignoring enquiries.

Thats why it takes a lot of digging to find out as near as dammit what the facts really are

Retlaw.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

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I never said any thing about me getting all the credit, I've already said I'm not interested in the praise from others. Dont put your words in my mouth or judge me by your standards.

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth or judge you by my standards - I don't even know what you think 'my standards' are? I was asking you a question, it's as simple as that, I was asking what it would take to get you to help the 'amateurs' out. Clearly that's never going to happen.

Originally Posted by Retlaw

I have no need of my work being judged by amateurs, and I have already said twice, there is only one person capable of judging my work.

I've already called you an expert on many occasion. I've only pointed out that the people that you call amateurs could probably do with the help of an expert like yourself.

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Instead of ranting at me,

At no point have I ranted at you. And if at any point you feel that I have then I'm sorry you feel that way. It wasn't my intention. My only motive for continuing to post on this thread is to get to the bottom of how inaccurate this list will be and therefore, how inaccurate our war memorial is likely to be.

Originally Posted by Retlaw

why don't you down load a copy of the list, or get one from Ossy Library.

I'm not an expert and would have no idea what I was looking for. If the list that has been produced was put on to the memorial I would treat it at face value - just as the majority of people would.

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Just check a few yourself, then rant at the ones who created the list. Oswaldtwistle's memorial would look great with the name DruNNond on it.
Don't say it won't be, if those who created the list had just looked at what they'd done they would have seen that there is only one U in Immanuel, never mind all the other errors.

I hope they do review the list now. I know the council officers read this forum all the time and I hope it does make them look again.
Obvious things like Immanuel might be spotted but others wouldn't be.
But even if I did look through it and look for mistakes I wouldn't know that someone was called Drummond and not Drunnond - there are lots of odd names around. I've just put Drunnond into google and a chap called Kevin Drunnond came up so obviously it's a real last name. How would I know that the Drunnond on our memorial should really be a Drummond?

And I certainly won't say it won't be wrong because I know for certain it will be, which is why I'm trying to encourage you as an expert to enlighten them.

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Read some of my replies in previous posts, instead of jumping on the first thing you don't agree with.

I have read every single one of your posts and tried to understand what your motives were. I understand that you're upset about your previous work being plagerised, I would be too. I’m sorry if you think I’m ranting when I’m not – I only want it to be right when it’s up there.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Thats why it takes a lot of digging to find out as near as dammit what the facts really are

I am sure it is impossible to get the information 100% correct. Records will have been lost and destroyed and all the name changing can't help either.

Just a thought, do they need permission to put a name on the memorial from a family member? You mentioned before that some families did not want the names of there loved ones on them.