Panopticon gets red light - Page 2

chav1 · 09-05-2005, 22:54

i agree it would be nice to see picnic tables up the top of the coppice but in reality we all know they will be spray painted within a week

still as long as the paint is dry i would enjoy sitting down up there eating a butty while looking at the view

Acrylic-bob · 10-05-2005, 05:31

Common Sense, it seems, has prevailed at last. Thank you for taking the time to post the report Graham (your typo Hyndbum for Hyndburn caused a little wry amusement).

I could get behind the idea of a metal Oak Tree, provided it was big enough. Perhaps in Stainless Steel, like the one at Whitebirk/Greenbank, which would solve the corrosion problem and would make it even more visible from a distance.

I suppose at this point thanks are due to NWRDA and midpennine arts for raising the possibility - Thanks!

I suppose I had better get my big electronic crayons out for this one.

One last thought, why just a three year project? Why not make it open ended and turn the whole area into a Sculpture Park as well as a nature reserve. That would bring in visitors and encourage people to walk the area and get some exercise? I'm sure that Tate Modern has literally TONS of stuff hanging around in warehouses that could be skilfully positioned around the area.

Interestingly, is this another one in the eye for MPA? I notice that last year HBC demanded something of an accounting from them, are we shortly to see a withdrawal of funding?

cashman · 10-05-2005, 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by chav1

lets put it into mathimatical terms and see cashman

good things happening + HBC + the PB factor = not bloody likely

sorry cashman no matter how i do the maths as soon as i introduce HBC into the equasion it all goes to crap

chav i'm everybit as cynical, but i do like the idea and would be prepared to behave until britcliffe and co give me reason not to.though common sense and H.B.C. do not sit well together.

Acrylic-bob · 10-05-2005, 16:10

And another thing, at the top of Plantation Road there is the ruins of Plantation Mill, How about having Channel Four's Time Team along to do a bit of digging? I'm sure that between us we can concoct a suitably tempting mystery. I know the archaeology willl be crap, three days is ridiculous, but it isn't about academic rigour, it is about media exposure.

Tealeaf · 10-05-2005, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Jones

REPORT TO: CABINET
DATE: 9th May 2005
REPORT OF: Councillor P Britcliffe - Leader of the Council
REPORT BY: Peter Baron - Head of Leisure

-Blah - Blah -Blah-Blah -Blah

Panopticons - Cabinet 21st July 2004
Council - 2 March 2005

This is pathetic. Cut out the bureaucratic mumbo-jumbo and you are left with a report which is giving the go-ahead to the panopticon, although it is careful not call it that. So, with the connivance of the labour group, this pointless scheme goes ahead, despite the great depth of public opposition.

Once again, the residents of Hyndburn are going to see their money wasted on yet another half-baked municiple project that is going to be of no use other than to line the pockets of the consultants and council pen-pushers. Meanwhile, nothing appears to be done about the ghastly mess which is so fallaciously referred to as Broadway; parks such Milnshaw sparkle in their magnificent decrepity and one big eyesore greets any visitor unfortunate enough to arrive by the the West end and Church.

Do any of these people have any common sense?

Graham Jones · 10-05-2005, 16:53

First time I read it I thought it was the green light, then PB said it was the red light for the rings. When asked if it was a red light for the Panopticon he said "it was clear if you read the report". Reading it again it is vague yet it is clear that a compromise is coming. The fact that no no no means a landmark structure behind Peel Monument.

Knowing several cabinet members are in favour it is understandble the report can be read both ways as everyone is fishing for a compromise soon [ie before funding is lost].

NWDA funding and REMADE funding is only if there is a Panopticon [or a Panopticon called something else] and these are refered to as outside funders and part of the £350k in the report.

REMADE is the whole of Arden Hall & The whole of Huncoat side of the coppice but not the top of the coppice. The Forrestry Commission monies is a FoAH project, not the Council, and is £120,000 for the forrestry areas and must be match funded, and has not been applied for yet. Match funding £120,000 will be hard work. The Hritage Lottery is mentioned but that is a tough one to get. The £1m HLG for Ryddings Park, the intial application form hasn't been filled in yet!

The map [didn't post that] indicated the new structure will go behind the Peel Monument and also indicated which paths are likely to be upgraded. Again this is a FoAH initiative for the paths which only began in February this year, initially in the woodland area where a tree survery has been undertaken and connecting outward and upward.

Likewise, the nature reserve is again a FoAH objective for the woodland area and that is the only area which has been assessed so far following a FoAH intiative. It is one of 3 sites in Hyndburn though the Council has the final decison. It is thought that this should be extended to include the coppice for size [and publicity], therefore funding and obviously regeneration.

The oak tree seems a reasonable idea and it was suggested by some old lady up Baxenden [according to Cllr Griffiths] who rightly identified the word with Accrington and 11 large oversize acorns for the 11th battalion and hope of a new beginning. Curious to know about materials/rusting. can it be climbed [by vandals not tourists!]? Apart from that I would be happy with that.

Its the 11th hour again and still no one is sure. Isnt it a shame that HBC wasn't more constructive 18 months ago instead of letting things drag. Funding issues remain highly questionable.

The basis [ie no Panopticon] to get funds remains in doubt/non existant. Laision with FoAH have been non-existant - and its groups like this who are often needed to apply for external funding such as the FC £120k. No-one from ELP has been involved and it is still all a bit chaotic. No one has thought how the bins wil be emptied from the top of the coppice.

Still its progress...

Graham Jones · 10-05-2005, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

This is pathetic. Cut out the bureaucratic mumbo-jumbo and you are left with a report which is giving the go-ahead to the panopticon, although it is careful not call it that. So, with the connivance of the labour group, this pointless scheme goes ahead, despite the great depth of public opposition.

Once again, the residents of Hyndburn are going to see their money wasted on yet another half-baked municiple project that is going to be of no use other than to line the pockets of the consultants and council pen-pushers. Meanwhile, nothing appears to be done about the ghastly mess which is so fallaciously referred to as Broadway; parks such Milnshaw sparkle in their magnificent decrepity and one big eyesore greets any visitor unfortunate enough to arrive by the the West end and Church.

Do any of these people have any common sense?

The Labour Group has had nothing to do with the Panopticon. Quite the opposite PB is trying to stick it on the Labour Group. Its a Cabinet decision and the Cabinet are Tories. That was decided at the last local elections when the public voted the Conservatives in as the Majority Party.

cashman · 10-05-2005, 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

This is pathetic. Cut out the bureaucratic mumbo-jumbo and you are left with a report which is giving the go-ahead to the panopticon, although it is careful not call it that. So, with the connivance of the labour group, this pointless scheme goes ahead, despite the great depth of public opposition.

Once again, the residents of Hyndburn are going to see their money wasted on yet another half-baked municiple project that is going to be of no use other than to line the pockets of the consultants and council pen-pushers. Meanwhile, nothing appears to be done about the ghastly mess which is so fallaciously referred to as Broadway; parks such Milnshaw sparkle in their magnificent decrepity and one big eyesore greets any visitor unfortunate enough to arrive by the the West end and Church.

Do any of these people have any common sense?

the public opposition i have encountered was of the ridiculous panoptican ideas,most people i speak to are NOT against other types of landmark, i discover this through living here and speaking to locals,so i think you may be slightly offbeam there tealeaf.

PurpleLass · 10-05-2005, 18:30

Everyone seems thrilled that the Panopticon has been dropped but what is a large scale sculptural landmark if it is not a Panopticon? Sounds to me like everyone is getting strung up about a name. And now you are going to be conned by the council who says 'you're not getting a Panopticon, but instead you're going to get a large scale sculptural landmark'.

However, having said that it's probably all immaterial anyway because from what I understand if it's not a 'Panopticon' all the funding from outside sources will disappear. So, this is the second con from your council - when it all goes astray they will blame the funders, NWDA and ELP (now known as LEP - Lancashire Economic Partnership by the way) and MPA for failing to deliver and not themselves.

Less · 10-05-2005, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleLass

Everyone seems thrilled that the Panopticon has been dropped but what is a large scale sculptural landmark if it is not a Panopticon? Sounds to me like everyone is getting strung up about a name. And now you are going to be conned by the council who says 'you're not getting a Panopticon, but instead you're going to get a large scale sculptural landmark'.

I was just thinking the same thing. Well said.

WillowTheWhisp · 10-05-2005, 22:52

If a metal oak tree with 11 acorns had been one of the panopticon options I would have looked on it favourably. I have been anti-panopticon mainly because none of the suggested ideas so far have seemed at all appropriate and some have been downright daft. I think if you look back at some of my previous posts you'll see that I asked why we couldn't have a sculpture or statue of some kind which had some significant connection to the town as opposed to humps and rings.

cashman · 10-05-2005, 22:59

i think also if you look back at my previous posts purplelass i also said iwas against the ridiculous designs,but also said would look favourably on something in honour of the accrington pals,if they call that panoptican i couldnt give a monkeys,seems to me like you are the one getting strung up.

cashman · 10-05-2005, 23:01

i think also if you look back at my previous posts purplelass i also said iwas against the ridiculous designs,but also said would look favourably on something in honour of the accrington pals,if they call that panoptican i couldnt give a monkeys,seems to me like you are the one getting strung up. you can also see i voted for that in the poll.

Gobsmacked · 10-05-2005, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleLass

what is a large scale sculptural landmark if it is not a Panopticon?

Who dreamed up this name "Panopticon" anyway? Have they any idea what a panopticon actually is?

BTW The metal oak tree sounds good. The picnic tables sound better. Will there be a car park and disabled access? Will it cater for all ethnic minorities?

Graham Jones · 11-05-2005, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

If a metal oak tree with 11 acorns had been one of the panopticon options I would have looked on it favourably. I have been anti-panopticon mainly because none of the suggested ideas so far have seemed at all appropriate and some have been downright daft. I think if you look back at some of my previous posts you'll see that I asked why we couldn't have a sculpture or statue of some kind which had some significant connection to the town as opposed to humps and rings.

Willow, my view is exactly the same. But its a chaotic situation so late in the day. No designs, no funding, no preparatory work and no clear direction.

AccyWeb knows as much as anyone about this issue and it will be interesting to see what members think of any comments that appear in this weeks Observer.