Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

He's far to busy looking after his family, running a house, and running the Council

Strange, first he's issuing invitations, the next he's too busy to listen to someone in his ward.

Good job he's no longer running his frock shop, he really would struggle to find time for anything then.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

I seem to remember the Welsh Wind Bag saying that Attila the Hun was clumsy tourist

I'll take your word on that, not being a big Shirley Bassey fan myself.

[g jones]

Originally Posted by andrewb

Sorry is this trying to get to the truth of the matter through the police, or is this you trying to gain politically on something that may or may not be true?

Thats rich coming from you Andrew. Its your main line of attack. Defend maverick Labour MPs like your honest John backing both sides. You have learned all the dirty tricks of old school politics.
I

[g jones]

Originally Posted by jaysay

When you take into account what leaders of other councils get, its not much.

A recent survey of lancashire districts not only showed Hynburn to pay the highest expenses but significantly higher than the other highest.
Mr Farrer. You are an expert in talking drivel. Incessent in saying anything to defend Tory face. As Andy Tatchell said, you can always rely on one daft as a brush Tory to lighten the atmosphere.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by g jones

A recent survey of lancashire districts not only showed Hynburn to pay the highest expenses but significantly higher than the other highest.
Mr Farrer. You are an expert in talking drivel. Incessent in saying anything to defend Tory face. As Andy Tatchell said, you can always rely on one daft as a brush Tory to lighten the atmosphere.

I think you have a real problem g.jones, you need a dentist urgently for two reasons, first your mouth wash ain't making it, second you need a wisdom tooth inserting

[Neil]

This thread is just too funny, please keep it up all of you

[Gayle]

Anyway, back to the subject in hand!

When I stood for council a couple of years ago, I identified at least three ways in which someone could cheat if they wanted too, I'm sure there are others. I'm not suggesting for a second that i did that or that any of my opponents did it either but I'm quite sure that if there was someone unscrupulous with half a brain who identified the ways as I did they probably wouldn't hesitate to use them.

1. - postal/proxy votes - people can be assisted with their vote. Let's just say for example that the person is vulnerable, blind or illiterate, their vote could easily be mis-used.

2. - at the polling booth - some parties sit outside the polling booth and mark down on the electoral register who has been to vote. They also know from previous electoral registers who has never voted before. Let's just say for example that I know for certain that a person who lives in one ward never votes and the chances of them turning up with their card to vote are 1 in a million - someone whose face is unknown could simply turn up at the polling station without a polling card and claim to be someone else.

3. at the count - votes for each person are counted into 50's and bundled. Let's just say I was one of the counters and I had a particular leaning, it wouldn't be too hard to hide some votes within bundles for the opposing candidate.

Now, I'm not saying that anyone that I know has ever used those methods but if I've worked it out then I'm pretty sure that other, less honest people, could work out the same.

The whole voting system needs to be completely overhauled if trust in it is to be restored.

[Gayle]

As for the subject of expenses and the amount that you get paid to be on the council.

As most people know, my politics rarely align themselves with the Conservatives but I would not begrudge the leader one penny for the amount of work that he puts in. Whether it's £35k or £60k that he gets for being leader of HBC, if he was the Chair of a large company he would get far more.

I know it's supposed to be a 'calling' and that councillors are only doing it for the good of the people but in my opinion, if you don't start making it attractive then you're never going to get a high calibre of councillors. If I'd have been elected I would have got the standard £4,800 as I think it was then but I would have had to lose a heck of a lot more in salary and work from other sources. Plus, they put in some long hours (well the good ones do), and they're constantly on call - I have heard of people who ring their local councillors at all hours.

[cashman]

interesting comments on whats possible, welcome back gayle wynonies missed ya.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle

As for the subject of expenses and the amount that you get paid to be on the council.

As most people know, my politics rarely align themselves with the Conservatives but I would not begrudge the leader one penny for the amount of work that he puts in. Whether it's £35k or £60k that he gets for being leader of HBC, if he was the Chair of a large company he would get far more.

I know it's supposed to be a 'calling' and that councillors are only doing it for the good of the people but in my opinion, if you don't start making it attractive then you're never going to get a high calibre of councillors. If I'd have been elected I would have got the standard £4,800 as I think it was then but I would have had to lose a heck of a lot more in salary and work from other sources. Plus, they put in some long hours (well the good ones do), and they're constantly on call - I have heard of people who ring their local councillors at all hours.

I agree, up to a point. Though I still think voting to give yourself a 20% increase is outrageous.

No matter how many peanuts you pay, you are still going to have a few monkeys.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle

As most people know, my politics rarely align themselves with the Conservatives but I would not begrudge the leader one penny for the amount of work that he puts in. Whether it's £35k or £60k that he gets for being leader of HBC, if he was the Chair of a large company he would get far more.

Quite a lot of the current incumbents wouldn't even be sent an application form, nevermind reach the interview stage, if applying for a job of equal standing in the corporate world.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by garinda

I agree, up to a point. Though I still think voting to give yourself a 20% increase is outrageous.

No matter how many peanuts you pay, you are still going to have a few monkeys.

Well 20% is a large increase but if it were to get it in line with a reasonable figure and then they only got an 'in line with inflation' one in future years it would make more sense. The problem with equating pay rises in percentages is that each year you widen the gap between the top and bottom salary.

Say for example i were to get £4,000 per year, 4% increase gives me a £100 pay increase. If I were getting £40,000 i would get a £1000 pay increase - so next year it would be 4% on top of £4,100 and £41,000.

I've probably got my maths wrong there but I think you see my point.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Anyway, back to the subject in hand!

When I stood for council a couple of years ago, I identified at least three ways in which someone could cheat if they wanted too, I'm sure there are others. I'm not suggesting for a second that i did that or that any of my opponents did it either but I'm quite sure that if there was someone unscrupulous with half a brain who identified the ways as I did they probably wouldn't hesitate to use them.

1. - postal/proxy votes - people can be assisted with their vote. Let's just say for example that the person is vulnerable, blind or illiterate, their vote could easily be mis-used.

2. - at the polling booth - some parties sit outside the polling booth and mark down on the electoral register who has been to vote. They also know from previous electoral registers who has never voted before. Let's just say for example that I know for certain that a person who lives in one ward never votes and the chances of them turning up with their card to vote are 1 in a million - someone whose face is unknown could simply turn up at the polling station without a polling card and claim to be someone else.

3. at the count - votes for each person are counted into 50's and bundled. Let's just say I was one of the counters and I had a particular leaning, it wouldn't be too hard to hide some votes within bundles for the opposing candidate.

Now, I'm not saying that anyone that I know has ever used those methods but if I've worked it out then I'm pretty sure that other, less honest people, could work out the same.

The whole voting system needs to be completely overhauled if trust in it is to be restored.

I tend to agree with, but anyone can cheat, your third example, thats why there are scrutineers, someone who is used to elections can spot vote palming. Sitting outside the poling station, well I know our party don't use a register at the polling station, we just take the numbers and take them back to a committee room, all parties know where there vote is, I used to know St. Andrews Ward like the back of my hand, because I worked it for so many years, I was only ever interested in getting our vote out, the last time I had anything to do with an election was when you stood and I told PB at around 8-30 that he was going to win by around 130 I wasn't that far of

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by garinda

Quite a lot of the current incumbents wouldn't even be sent an application form, nevermind reach the interview stage, if applying for a job of equal standing in the corporate world.

I totally agree with you and I think that's one of the big problems with local councils in general.

In the olden days, a person would sit on the town council and they would have got to that position because they had a certain standing in the community - i.e. successful business men, head teachers, etc.

Nowadays anyone can put themselves forward. Now I'm not saying that it was perfect before but it did mean that the councillors had already achieved something in life and had a certain amount of experience to start off with.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by jaysay

I tend to agree with, but anyone can cheat, your third example, thats why there are scrutineers, someone who is used to elections can spot vote palming. Sitting outside the poling station, well I know our party don't use a register at the polling station, we just take the numbers and take them back to a committee room, all parties know where there vote is, I used to know St. Andrews Ward like the back of my hand, because I worked it for so many years, I was only ever interested in getting our vote out, the last time I had anything to do with an election was when you stood and I told PB at around 8-30 that he was going to win by around 130 I wasn't that far of

And I knew the same at around about late afternoon myself.