Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Gayle

As for the subject of expenses and the amount that you get paid to be on the council.

As most people know, my politics rarely align themselves with the Conservatives but I would not begrudge the leader one penny for the amount of work that he puts in. Whether it's £35k or £60k that he gets for being leader of HBC, if he was the Chair of a large company he would get far more.

I know it's supposed to be a 'calling' and that councillors are only doing it for the good of the people but in my opinion, if you don't start making it attractive then you're never going to get a high calibre of councillors. If I'd have been elected I would have got the standard £4,800 as I think it was then but I would have had to lose a heck of a lot more in salary and work from other sources. Plus, they put in some long hours (well the good ones do), and they're constantly on call - I have heard of people who ring their local councillors at all hours.

I can vouch for people ringing councillors at all times of day and night, 6am Saturday mornng, 6-30am during the week, 10-30pm on a Staturday night

[Neil]

Originally Posted by garinda

Quite a lot of the current incumbents wouldn't even be sent an application form, nevermind reach the interview stage, if applying for a job of equal standing in the corporate world.

Whose fault is that, those that stand or those that vote them in?

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by Neil

Whose fault is that, those that stand or those that vote them in?

You can tell from the various political debates on here people don't vote for people they vote for the party. You can stick a red or blue rosette on a chimpanzee and it would get voted in.

Which reminds me, when are the town hall tea-parties ?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Gayle

As for the subject of expenses and the amount that you get paid to be on the council.

As most people know, my politics rarely align themselves with the Conservatives but I would not begrudge the leader one penny for the amount of work that he puts in. Whether it's £35k or £60k that he gets for being leader of HBC, if he was the Chair of a large company he would get far more.

I know it's supposed to be a 'calling' and that councillors are only doing it for the good of the people but in my opinion, if you don't start making it attractive then you're never going to get a high calibre of councillors. If I'd have been elected I would have got the standard £4,800 as I think it was then but I would have had to lose a heck of a lot more in salary and work from other sources. Plus, they put in some long hours (well the good ones do), and they're constantly on call - I have heard of people who ring their local councillors at all hours.

I have to agree with you on that Gayle. I think both parties struggle to find the right people (or any at all) to stand for Councillor. I also think you can't expect people to run the Council for nothing. I also wonder how someone who is working full time would be able to be Leader of the Council. If a Councillor is voted in as leader and they already have a job it is a big risk leaving that job to be the leader. Not an easy position to be in in my opinion.

Maybe Graham could advise us how he plans to manage work, home, kids and being the Leader of the Council if he ever finds himself in that position.

I think, but am often wrong, that Peter was part time before he retired/stopped working. I have no idea if he left work because of his Council duties but it would not surprise me.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Neil

Whose fault is that, those that stand or those that vote them in?

Or the system?

A system whereby people find themselves in charge of multi-million pound budgets, when in reality they'd struggle to organise a jumble sale in the church hall.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

Or the system?

A system whereby people find themselves in charge of multi-million pound budgets, when in reality they'd struggle to organise a jumble sale in the church hall.

In that case it would be bloody well totally irresponcible putting g.jones in charge, according to reports he can't even manage his own party let allone the council, only last week he had a toe to toe with one of his ex-councillors and because he didn't get his own way he walked out, real leadership, not

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

Or the system?

A system whereby people find themselves in charge of multi-million pound budgets, when in reality they'd struggle to organise a jumble sale in the church hall.

Well PB seems to be doing a little better than his Labour predecessors and thats according to the Audit Commision

[claytonender]

Originally Posted by jaysay

In that case it would be bloody well totally irresponcible putting g.jones in charge, according to reports he can't even manage his own party let allone the council, only last week he had a toe to toe with one of his ex-councillors and because he didn't get his own way he walked out, real leadership, not

As you were not at the meeting concerned how can you say that Graham walked out because he did not get his own way. Have you thought of asking him why he left?

This was a Cabinet meeting and the business (according to the previosly circulated agenda of the meeting) had been concluded - apart form 3 or 4 items where the public were to be excluded. What most people do not know is that only Cabinet members can vote at Cabinet meetings, other Councillors can ask questions but in essence they are only their as observers.

[claytonender]

Originally Posted by Gayle

1. - postal/proxy votes - people can be assisted with their vote. Let's just say for example that the person is vulnerable, blind or illiterate, their vote could easily be mis-used.

2. - at the polling booth - some parties sit outside the polling booth and mark down on the electoral register who has been to vote. They also know from previous electoral registers who has never voted before. Let's just say for example that I know for certain that a person who lives in one ward never votes and the chances of them turning up with their card to vote are 1 in a million - someone whose face is unknown could simply turn up at the polling station without a polling card and claim to be someone else.

3. at the count - votes for each person are counted into 50's and bundled. Let's just say I was one of the counters and I had a particular leaning, it wouldn't be too hard to hide some votes within bundles for the opposing candidate.

I agree with you entirely Gayle, especially about postal/proxy votes and your point 2. In 2006, when you stood for election there was a recount in Immanuel ward, when it was found that some of the ballot papers had been put in the wrong bundle of 50. At the counts in 2007 and 2008 the bundles have been doubled checked by the returning officer before the results have been declared.

Also as Jaysay has said, each party has Counting Agents, who are there to make sure that none of their parties votes get mixed in with an opposing candidates. In 2006, I was the election agent for the Labour Party candidate for the Clayton-le-Moors ward (Tim O'Kane). Because one of the Oswaldtwistle wards had already been counted on the table previously, there were several Tory Counting agents sat at the table, who did not move, so it was very difficult for any of the Labour (or Indpendent) Counting agents to see the ballots papers clearly. But in 2007 and 2008 each ward has had its own table allocated from the start so the Counting Agents know where to go and sit when they walk into the room.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by claytonender

As you were not at the meeting concerned how can you say that Graham walked out because he did not get his own way. Have you thought of asking him why he left? .

well if you only listened to one side of n issue, you would say the same.

[g jones]

Originally Posted by lancsdave

You can tell from the various political debates on here people don't vote for people they vote for the party. You can stick a red or blue rosette on a chimpanzee and it would get voted in.

Which reminds me, when are the town hall tea-parties ?

Churchill's remarks about democracy come to mind. But there is worse...

The independents aren't free thinking mavericks by and large. Just people who find it enjoyable to disagree with everything all the time. They have the biggest ego's and pervert decisions for self gain, importance on a higher scale than your average party candidate who commits themselves to working with others.

Not a snipe at all independents, just a personal honest observation.

[g jones]

Originally Posted by Neil

I have to agree with you on that Gayle. I think both parties struggle to find the right people (or any at all) to stand for Councillor. I also think you can't expect people to run the Council for nothing. I also wonder how someone who is working full time would be able to be Leader of the Council. If a Councillor is voted in as leader and they already have a job it is a big risk leaving that job to be the leader. Not an easy position to be in in my opinion.

Maybe Graham could advise us how he plans to manage work, home, kids and being the Leader of the Council if he ever finds himself in that position.

I think, but am often wrong, that Peter was part time before he retired/stopped working. I have no idea if he left work because of his Council duties but it would not surprise me.

I think this is good point. Not to get political, just to say I support Dave Mason's comments, PB excludes others and takes the role full time ++. Often Portfolio holders hear their comments for the first time when PB has sent them to the press.

I have planned all along to do things differently for two reasons. To share things around, to get everyone involved to lighten the load considerably. Secondly it will make for a better Borough. In two years as leader people are happy (in the Labour Group) that things have improved considerably towards a unified, coherent, team work approach.

There is also the issue of meetings/structure. If they were constructed better, and in the evenings, that would help. People are excluded at the moment so the leader has to do more work, a lot more.

[g jones]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Well PB seems to be doing a little better than his Labour predecessors and thats according to the Audit Commision

PB has been bailed out by massive Government investment. That's a fact. If we had been rate capped we'd be in the same boat as the Daily Mirror Pension Fund. Nothing to do with PB at all.

He voted against the new management restructure (you know Mr Farrer, the one Labour brought in because your lot had bankrupted the Council - were you criticised Labour's redundancy programme and golden handshakes), and voted to instead to keep the last lot, the old failed management in post. And now the new management team have made strides forward your claiming all the glory.

[g jones]

Originally Posted by jaysay

In that case it would be bloody well totally irresponcible putting g.jones in charge, according to reports he can't even manage his own party let allone the council, only last week he had a toe to toe with one of his ex-councillors and because he didn't get his own way he walked out, real leadership, not

Posted via Mobile Device

[g jones]

Originally Posted by jaysay

In that case it would be bloody well totally irresponcible putting g.jones in charge, according to reports he can't even manage his own party let allone the council, only last week he had a toe to toe with one of his ex-councillors and because he didn't get his own way he walked out, real leadership, not

No. That is rubbish. Business had finished. The press said it looked like punch and judy. Cllr M Pritchard and PB talking about how standards are falling. The two bigger culprits doing a pre organised double act. One day when there is room to park policy I will tell the whole unpleasant truth about MP antics. Lest to say he went off on one because he didn't hear what he wanted to hear and because he didn't listen do what was said in the first place. He has taken the Tory whip hence his double act. I quietly said what was quoted and also left quietly. Because the press are excluded from pink papers, i leave to talk to them outside. How long before PB does pink papers first to try and stop the press talking privately to me ?

The press at PBs request over-wrote up the story which had no truth in its headline. No one there accepts the story as true.

So keep trying Mr Farrer. As Wilson said "you keep telling lies about us and I'll keep telling the truth about you"

PB used this in full council and credited it to McMillan. Funny.